The Aberconway Version

[lynn cates]

abuse

Hello Stewart. I take it your caution was not directed towards me specifically.

But, yes, I'd like to see the document at some point and wondered if Simon had any information in that regard.

And, no, abusive comments are not my game. A glance at any of my 2000+ posts should make that abundantly clear.

Cheers.
LC

[Simon Wood]

Hi Lynn,

I have no further information. I am merely your humble messenger.

Regards,

Simon

[Stewart P Evans]

Well Aware

Hello Stewart. I take it your caution was not directed towards me specifically.
But, yes, I'd like to see the document at some point and wondered if Simon had any information in that regard.
And, no, abusive comments are not my game. A glance at any of my 2000+ posts should make that abundantly clear.
Cheers.
LC

Lynn you take it correctly. Those who use abusive, insulting or defamatory words or innuendo are well aware of it when they do so.

To reiterate, had it not been for posts of this nature, specifically by Trevor Marriott, that appeared on the other thread the document would have been posted weeks ago. His words were directed towards the authors of the A-Z and his aggressive and antagonistic stance resulted in the document not being posted.

If it were not for the sterling research by Keith Skinner, many years ago, the details that we already have, courtesy of the A-Z and its authors, would not be in the public domain.

Knowing the great interest in this document Keith Skinner had already decided to have it posted for the information of all and had already been in contact with Mr Mclaren to obtain the necessary permission. All this before Trevor Marriott jumped in with his size tens and spoilt everything.

I can assure everyone here that Keith had already indicated to me his desire to have the document posted and had asked if I would do so before all the nastiness started. Nastiness that had nothing to do with Keith or me.

At a personal level I would have thought that a full apology to the authors of the A-Z is in order - but I doubt that we shall see one. My real concern now is over Simon Wood posting the text of a personal letter written by Mr Mclaren on public boards - was permission given by Mr Mclaren to do this?

[Simon Wood]

Hi Stewart,

Neatly spun.

Regards,

Simon

[Stewart P Evans]

'Spun'

I am not sure what Simon Wood means by ‘spun’ – but he appears to be accusing me of lying or deceiving. You will be pleased to know that I shall not now be posting the copy of the document – it’s simply not worth the hassle.

I have also received a personal message from Trevor Marriott with the odd title ‘Concerned for your well being’. In this message he states – ‘You accuse me of making improper suggestions against Skinner and Co. Well I did not make specific suggestions if what I said was perceived by both you and the others to be improper so be it. I guess only people with things to hide would think like that.’

I find this incredible – far from issuing any sort of apology he is acting as if he has been wronged. It was not just me, but others who clearly saw what his posts were stating and implying.

He is now stating that I have ‘the audacity to publicly again falsely accuse me, it beggars beleif.’ What beggars belief is the fact that he is, apparently, turning the table and accusing me of lying.

He also states I am ‘trying to save face and turn the worm again by saying Skinner was about to publish it what a load of old tosh he has had 24 years to do it and so far he hasn’t.’ It is not ‘tosh’ it is true – and for his information a third, disinterested, party monitored all that went on and knows and can confirm that what I say is true. We have copies of all messages and emails that we exchanged before Mr. Marriott made his unwarranted comments.

I am again accused of ‘running with the hare and hunting with the hounds’ and more and more people are ‘turning against me’. This again, is not true, the authors of the A-Z well know that I speak my mind about things I do not agree with which is what I did in relation to the ‘Swanson marginalia’. But I accused no one of dishonesty or deception.

Anyway, I am perceived to be ‘ranting’ and digging myself ‘deepr and deeper into a hole here’, so it might be best if I disappear again and let these people with their conspiracy theories get on with it.

[The Good Michael]

I think we should all stop posting on this thread until Trevor issues an apology to everyone involved. The McLaren email (put out here with or without permission) says it all and for Marriott to not apologize for the nonsense and allegations he began is as ungentlemanly as it gets, and yet so Trevor-like. Let this thread be in the hands of the loonies who believe in conspiracies. They shoot themselves in their own feet with their stupidity.

Mike

[corey123]

Hello All,

I believe, like so many have offered, we just need to let this topic die. The more we discuss it, the more people shoot themselves in the foot, and the less we get to see. Everyone shouldn't have to suffer for a spare few. This war has dragged on long enough, and is un-needed. I have never seen an attempt to gather information fought for this way, and I agree, it shouldn't have ever been like this.

It is sad that we can't work for a common goal without being at each others throats and producing both rude and un-needed comments and so-forth.

It may not be my place to say this but I believe I speak for all when I say this needs to end.

This has gone on long enough.

[D'Onston]

Yes, some are aiming at their own feet!

Hey All,

This has turned out to be a totally self defeating thread. Amen, Cory. Amen, Mr. Evans.

No wonder Ms. Cornwell considers us an unstable nest of loonies! [and, NO, I'm not a fan of hers.]

It's so sad when we become our own worst enemies!

Best Wishes, Mike

[Simon Wood]

Hi D'Onston,

Sabotaged would be a better description than self-defeating.

Regards,

Simon

[Stewart P Evans]

Actually

Hi D'Onston,
Sabotaged would be a better description than self-defeating.
Regards,
Simon

Actually from the first post this thread sabotaged itself and achieved the opposite of the gloating claims it made.

[Stewart P Evans]

Saga

What is particularly annoying about this saga is that I, and the authors of the A-Z, have been portrayed by certain parties as some sort of 'click' with something to hide.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Keith Skinner is able to prove that he had taken steps to publish the 'Aberconway version' on these boards before Trevor Marriott tried to make any contact with the Mclaren family. So Keith was more than willing to share something that he had as a result of his own hard work and research conducted many years ago - at a time when there were not so many obsessive Ripperologists around airing their strange views on public Internet forums. Keith properly obtained a copy of the document for his own use in a book he was writing. The copy was his and he had the owner's permission, all those years ago, to use it as he wished.

Keith used the material in his 1987 book fully explaining its provenance. He did not need to publish the whole document verbatim and this was never queried until recently - some 23 years later! Keith, Martin and Paul, in the A-Z, published all of what was considered to be the relevant detail in their 1991 book. Of course they were on a restricted word count imposed by the publisher so only material considered to be relevant was included on many entries. This, again, was never queried until recently - some 19 years later!

Now, we find, the honest work of the authors of the A-Z has been impugned on these boards and suggestions of actual theft made. This is intolerable. It has also been suggested that they have to share their material in full and they are wrong because the full document was not published. This seems to be a mindset that has crept in with the burgeoning of information overkill on the Internet. The truth is that they don't have to share anything if they do not wish to. Least of all with people suggesting some sort of conspiracy - even theft. There are too many people who do little or no research themselves but expect to be given everything that others find.

Now we see that I have been accused of lying on these boards - which I most certainly have not. Those, like Mr. Wood, who make this suggestion should produce what they consider is evidence that I have - or apologise for making such an offensive suggestion. I will then address these 'suggestions'. This strange and aggressive attitude is what has caused the unpleasantness and problems here and it should be clear that had this nastiness not emerged then the full 'Aberconway version' would have appeared on these boards weeks ago (and would have now been under discussion) - I was ready at one stage to do just that at Keith's request. Some may recall that I did actually post an extract from it concerning the Coles murder.

Now we have reached the unfortunate position we are now in thanks to the aggressiveness and obstinacy of certain people. So be it - I have no wish to be involved in such antics.

[Dr. John Watson]

So are we to understand the reason for not printing the entire Aberconway letter on this board for all to see is simply to teach Trevor Marriott a lesson?

John

[Stewart P Evans]

Publishing

So are we to understand the reason for not printing the entire Aberconway letter on this board for all to see is simply to teach Trevor Marriott a lesson?
John

I thought I had made the situation clear. Publishing of the full document (not letter) is not in my hands and it is not my decision as to whether it appears here or anywhere else. However, it is my decision that I shall not be posting the document for the reasons given. I do not like to be accused of dishonesty - have you not followed what has been going on? I am speaking from my own perspective - not anyone else's. You know the amazing thing is that the one person who owns the copy of the document and has been given the right to use it as he wishes - Keith - has been approached by no one! Nor have either of his fellow authors of the A-Z. A truly bizarre situation given what has been alleged by some on these boards.

[Dr. John Watson]

Stewart, you don't have to repeat yourself for my benefit - I understand you perfectly - and you have absolutely every right to withhold your copy of the Aberconway letter from Trevor and the rest of us for whatever reason seems valid to you. The point is, you aren't going to publish it! Perhaps Keith Skinner will agree to allow someone to publish his copy of the complete letter, or better yet, perhaps Trevor or another brave soul might approach the owner of the letter, Mr. McLaren, and arrange either to obtain another copy or at the very least, to read the original document and possibly make a longhand copy. But I do agree with the others that further discussion of the issue on this thread is useless, so I for one will not comment further on it.

John

[Stewart P Evans]

Twice Now

Stewart, you don't have to repeat yourself for my benefit - I understand you perfectly - and you have absolutely every right to withhold your copy of the Aberconway letter from Trevor and the rest of us for whatever reason seems valid to you. The point is, you aren't going to publish it! Perhaps Keith Skinner will agree to allow someone to publish his copy of the complete letter, or better yet, perhaps Trevor or another brave soul might approach the owner of the letter, Mr. McLaren, and arrange either to obtain another copy or at the very least, to read the original document and possibly make a longhand copy. But I do agree with the others that further discussion of the issue on this thread is useless, so I for one will not comment further on it.
John

John, twice now I have been within the receipt of one email of posting the Aberconway version. Twice, before this was done, messages that have appeared here have compromised that taking place. I have not withheld my copy of the document - as I have explained the decision for it to be published is not mine.

However, in the face of all this nonsense and unfounded allegations of dishonesty on my part I have now decided that I want no further part of this idiocy and I have simply stated that I shall not be posting it on Keith's behalf, perhaps someone else will - who knows? I have tried my best, believe it or not, to post it here and have failed because others have made totally unfounded allegations and cast aspersions on others.

I am sure that Keith will do the right thing in the circumstances and that he is perfectly capable of reaching his own decision in this regard. Whether Trevor seeks to obtain and publish it himself is his own decision. The right course of action would have been, in my opinion, to approach Keith, Martin or Paul and ask - this wasn't done.