Macnaghten knew about Druitt being a barrister?

[Jonathan H]

To Mike

Yep, that could be it.

A dotty vicar, though interestingly Sims did not disparage him that way. That the story was not true, just that the Vicar was being taken for a ride.

But then the great Sims was often wrong too, right?

So you think it is a coincidence [I don't mean that pejoratively, eg. because coincidences do happen!] that the Vicar's story matches Druitt better than Major Griffiths' 'Drowned Doctor' -- which we know is supposed to be Druitt.

To Adam

Yes, it sure is ironic.

I was using the Roman version of dignity which you rudely, arrogantly, and inaccurately thought was an error.

Everybody I have spoken to claims that they tell you how wonderful your latest salvo is, then they confer with me behind your back -- without being asked -- to say that you have nothing, as per usual.

It's all just manic prejudice, as in to pre-judge.

Unlike you, or them for that matter, I will wait for your article.

Of course when I come up with something new; a new take, a new theory, a new way of looking at old sources -- often considered quite unimpressive theories by many veteran posters I grant you -- I at least don't make them pay for it.

I share it, here, immediately.

[Adam Went]

Jonathan:

I was using the Roman version of dignity which you rudely, arrogantly, and inaccurately thought was an error.

Of course you were. How foolish of me. I presume the Roman version of "Ripper" is also "Rikpepr" as well? I really must brush up on my linguistic skills.

Everybody I have spoken to claims that they tell you how wonderful your latest salvo is, then they confer with me behind your back -- without being asked -- to say that you have nothing, as per usual.

How very interesting, as I haven't actually specifically told anyone I have conferred with what the information I personally have gathered so far is....so either you're lying, or they are lying to you.

Unlike you, or them for that matter, I will wait for your article.

Of course when I come up with something new; a new take, a new theory, a new way of looking at old sources -- often considered quite unimpressive theories by many veteran posters I grant you -- I at least don't make them pay for it.

I share it, here, immediately.

There will be no article. At least, there is no intention of one at the moment. Once again you have confused yourself. I have an article coming out shortly on Lionel Druitt, which is entirely seperate from the research I am now undertaking on Montague. I assure you and everybody else that once the entire case has been made and is ready to go, it will be appearing on the forums and everywhere else for everybody to see - the more the better!

But then again, don't you already know what my information is, Jonathan? Why do I need to share it if you already know what it is or what it's going to be?
I may have to take the shovel off you before you dig your own hole any deeper.

Cheers,
Adam.

[D'Onston]

Hi Jonathan, The Vicar's description of the man he claimed was JTR: "The murderer was a man of good position and otherwise unblemished character, who suffered from epileptic mania, and is long since deceased." is so very vague that it could apply to any upper middle class gentleman in the LVP who was epileptic and now deceased. How you can say the Vicar's statement is a good description of Druitt in particular, is beyond my ken, especially since, tellingly, there is no mention of suicide.

Then there is the specific claim of "epileptic mania". As far as I know, no one ever raised the specific issue of epilepsy in regard to Druitt or anyone in his family. Anyway, barring a serious brain injury late in life, the various forms of epilepsy manifest themselves early in life, and the symptoms are not easily hidden or overlooked by those in daily contact with the epileptic. If he had epilepsy, it would have been noticed by all his family and friends. Therefore, the idea that Druitt suffered from "epileptic mania" is highly unlikely. The supposition that Druitt may have feared he was becoming like his mother, i.e. either severely depressed or schizophrenic, is referenced in his suicide note. Again, this has nothing to do with epilepsy.

I know there are questions as to the authenticity of the suicide note, but there is still no hint of any kind, aside from the Vicar, that Druitt suffered from epilepsy. If there were any hint that he had that illness, he would never have been employed at the school, nor would he, in fact, have been employable at all in the LVP.

As for a late onset of the disease, we have no evidence at all that Druitt ever sustained a serious head injury. The injury would have to have been severe enough for him to have been taken to hospital for treatment.

In summation: the very fact that the Vicar provides a specific "diagnosis" of "epileptic mania", fits very poorly with what we know of Druitt and his family's psychiatric history while the rest of the description could apply to almost any man who was dead when the Vicar's story was published.

All the Best, Mike

[Scott Nelson]

Just wanted to say thank you to everybody who has contacted me thus far and either assisted or offered to assist in the effort to forever clear MJ Druitt's name from the suspect list.

What do you care? You've got your whole life ahead of you. There's bigger challenges to be met and better goals to benefit humanity.

[harry]

Adam,
One does not need to clear Druitt of suspicion.There never was any in the first place.

[tji]

Hi Jonathan


Everybody I have spoken to claims that they tell you how wonderful your latest salvo is, then they confer with me behind your back -- without being asked -- to say that you have nothing, as per usual.

Woah and they call women the gossips!!! This smacks a little of desperation Jonathan, not to mantion a little underhand, are you trying to make Adam paranoid about who he is conferring with. I will say that I am guilty of helping (or hindering!!) Adam a little. I will also say I am not one of the ones conferring with you


Hi Scott

What do you care? You've got your whole life ahead of you. There's bigger challenges to be met and better goals to benefit humanity

Why does there have to be bigger challenges though, to a person interested in Monty this is a big challenge, I agree that he is a very unlikely suspect but he is still a suspect, if Adam is successful then that won't be the case no more.

He is doing a lot more than I was 10 year ago!!

Tj

[Adam Went]

Scott:

What do I care? How can somebody call themselves a Ripperologist if they couldn't care less about the people involved with the case? Too often they get treated like objects rather than human beings just like you or me, and just because they aren't here anymore shouldn't change that. And that's why it's an excellent challenge to try and find out the truth about not just Druitt, but all of them. So I am more than happy to take on this challenge.

Harry:

You are exactly right. If only everybody else realised that!

Tracy:

Thanks once again for the support on here and the assistance with the Druitt info, it's definitely no hindrance, any little piece of information or thought could end up being the final piece of the jigsaw, so it's great!

Cheers,
Adam.

[Jonathan H]

Macnaghten's Marvellous Memory?

Before the witness paradigm began to cement itself of a Ripper seen by witnesses sporting a moustache, but no beard here is primary source which has the extra hair from the 'Leather Apron' phase:

Evening Standard (London)
10 September 1888

'Inspectors Abberline and Helson stated, at a late hour last evening, that they were not in possession of any clue likely to lead to a definite result. They and several detective officers had been engaged following up every point which might lead to information, but without a satisfactory result. The police attach importance to the statement of the woman who had the medals given her as half sovereigns. This woman, Emily Walton, is a lodger in the common lodging houses of Spitalfields ... Description of a man wanted, who entered a passage of the house at which the murder was committed, with a prostitute, at 2.0 a.m., on the 8th. Age 37, height 5ft 7in, rather dark beard and moustache. Dress - Short, dark jacket, dark vest and trousers, black scarf, and black felt hat. Spoke with a foreign accent." This description has been arrived at after mature consideration on the part of the most experienced members of the detective police force.'

George Sims in 1907 in 'Lloyds Weekly' Magazine, Sept 22nd 1907:

'Various witnesses who had seen a man conversing with a woman who was soon afterwards found murdered said that he was a well-dressed man with a black moustache. Others described him as a man with a closely-trimmed beard.'

Macnaghten from 'Laying the Ghost of Jack the Ripper' (1914):

' ... On this occasion it is probable that the police officer on duty in the vicinity saw the murderer with his victim a few minutes before, but no satisfactory description was forthcoming.'

In 1907 Macnaghten recalled the bearded-suspect description, or checked his own files. Whichever he gifted it to Sims for his peculiar vanity; his need to be the fiend's double and give actual credence to his coffee-stall owner story ('recognising' the murderer in a picture of Sims, the one which looks remarkable like Druitt -- except for the beard).

In his memoirs, part of the subtle but insistent pulling back from Sims' Ripper profile involved withdrawing the doubling motif so beloved of his Liberal pal.