Macnaughten Memorandum

[FISHY1118]

The Macnaghten Memorandum.

One of the the greatest works of fiction known to man.

Regards,

Simon

Are you then also of the same opinion as H.I Brother, that Macnaghten suspects are an "absolute joke" ?

[Simon Wood]

Yes. Especially the one who didn't exist.

[Lewis C]

Yes. Especially the one who didn't exist.

Hi Simon,

I take it that you mean "Kosminski", because I don't think there's any question that Druitt and Ostrog existed. We don't know for sure whom Macnaughten was referring to by "Kosminski", but that doesn't mean that he didn't exist. Ostrog, however, was in jail at the time of the murders, so he's the only one of Macnaughten's suspects that I would call a joke.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Lewis C,

Correct. Pick any prize from the top shelf.

“Kosminski” [no forename] made his debut in 1892 as a leading fictional character in Israel Zangwill’s best-selling Anglo-Jewish novel “Children of the Ghetto,” which documented the lives of immigrant Jews living and working in the Yiddish-speaking streets of London’s East End.

“Kosminski” [no forename, as in the MM] was a Polish Jew.

[Scott Nelson]

There was a "Koski" Family living in Ebenezer Square, Aldgate in 1871. Could that be from where Zangwill got "Kosminski" for his novel?

[FISHY1118]

Hi Lewis C,

Correct. Pick any prize from the top shelf.

“Kosminski” [no forename] made his debut in 1892 as a leading fictional character in Israel Zangwill’s best-selling Anglo-Jewish novel “Children of the Ghetto,” which documented the lives of immigrant Jews living and working in the Yiddish-speaking streets of London’s East End.

“Kosminski” [no forename, as in the MM] was a Polish Jew.

And Druitt ? What are your thoughts on him as a suspect, ? Specifically in relation to the Macnaghten memorandum?

[Simon Wood]

Ignoring the fact that there was no serial killer named JtR, how could he have been schoolmaster M.J. Druitt when term times got in the way of his murdering Nichols and Chapman, and even the most ardent Druittist has dismally failed to account for his movements on 30th September and 9th November. Thank goodness Macnaghten never heard of Lechmere. It's just as barmy a theory.

[Holmes' Idiot Brother]

Hi Simon,

I take it that you mean "Kosminski", because I don't think there's any question that Druitt and Ostrog existed. We don't know for sure whom Macnaughten was referring to by "Kosminski", but that doesn't mean that he didn't exist. Ostrog, however, was in jail at the time of the murders, so he's the only one of Macnaughten's suspects that I would call a joke.

We don't know for sure whom Macnaughten was referring to by "Kosminski", but that doesn't mean that he didn't exist.

Correct. He certainly did exist, and here is where we get into one of my favorite suspects....David Cohen. MacNaughten named Druitt solely on the basis of Druitt's family "believing" that he was the murderer, Druitt topping himself shortly after Kelly was slain, and without getting into any specifics whatsoever. At this point, he is named on nothing more than a hunch. And he got Druitt's profession wrong. Not a good look for MacNaughten. Michael Ostrog?? Only a desk jockey who never worked the streets would name a confidence man as a serial killer with no record of the man ever being violent! I'm beginning to think that Sir Melville would not qualify for my staff. I believe he confused "Aaron Kosminsky," - a raving homeless lunatic who never bathed and ate offal from the streets - with "Aaron/Nathan Kaminsky/David Cohen....or whoever the heck he was! I remember Sugden pointing this out and calling the "David Cohen" individual "a very ugly character indeed." I'm fairly certain this Cohen character would have much more success at cajoling and convincing a drunken prostitute to go with him/lead him into a dark alley for a "bit of the business." Aaron Kosminski was too far gone to have the self-control for energetic murder. As my Southern aunt would say, "I do believe the cheese done slid off his cracker!"

Ostrog, however, was in jail at the time of the murders, so he's the only one of Macnaughten's suspects that I would call a joke.

It's not the suspects, so much as it's MacNaughten himself, who is the joke. Why so much credence has been given this man baffles me. I will take the word over actual detectives in the streets before his. As one inmate said to me, "If you wanna know what's happening in the streets, who do you talk to, the Mayor??" Fair point.

[FISHY1118]

Ignoring the fact that there was no serial killer named JtR, how could he have been schoolmaster M.J. Druitt when term times got in the way of his murdering Nichols and Chapman, and even the most ardent Druittist has dismally failed to account for his movements on 30th September and 9th November. Thank goodness Macnaghten never heard of Lechmere. It's just as barmy a theory.

Not withstanding the fact there was a killer tho, who killed and mutilated 5 women, who was by all accounts given the name ''Jack The Ripper'' [ for the barbaric way in which he carved up his victims im guessing ] by the press and public alike .

Thanks for your Druitt thoughts , a barmy theory indeed.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Fishy,

"There was a killer who killed and mutilated 5 women."

We must divest ourselves of this notion if we are ever going to stand a chance of solving the mystery.

Simon

[Lewis C]

We don't know for sure whom Macnaughten was referring to by "Kosminski", but that doesn't mean that he didn't exist.

Correct. He certainly did exist, and here is where we get into one of my favorite suspects....David Cohen. MacNaughten named Druitt solely on the basis of Druitt's family "believing" that he was the murderer, Druitt topping himself shortly after Kelly was slain, and without getting into any specifics whatsoever. At this point, he is named on nothing more than a hunch. And he got Druitt's profession wrong. Not a good look for MacNaughten. Michael Ostrog?? Only a desk jockey who never worked the streets would name a confidence man as a serial killer with no record of the man ever being violent! I'm beginning to think that Sir Melville would not qualify for my staff. I believe he confused "Aaron Kosminsky," - a raving homeless lunatic who never bathed and ate offal from the streets - with "Aaron/Nathan Kaminsky/David Cohen....or whoever the heck he was! I remember Sugden pointing this out and calling the "David Cohen" individual "a very ugly character indeed." I'm fairly certain this Cohen character would have much more success at cajoling and convincing a drunken prostitute to go with him/lead him into a dark alley for a "bit of the business." Aaron Kosminski was too far gone to have the self-control for energetic murder. As my Southern aunt would say, "I do believe the cheese done slid off his cracker!"

Ostrog, however, was in jail at the time of the murders, so he's the only one of Macnaughten's suspects that I would call a joke.

It's not the suspects, so much as it's MacNaughten himself, who is the joke. Why so much credence has been given this man baffles me. I will take the word over actual detectives in the streets before his. As one inmate said to me, "If you wanna know what's happening in the streets, who do you talk to, the Mayor??" Fair point.

Cohen is one of my favorite suspects too. Right now, I guess I'd put him at #4, right after Bury, Chapman, and Levy. He does seem to fit Anderson and Swanson's description better than Aaron Kosminsky does, but I wouldn't dismiss Aaron K. He might have been capable of the murders in 1888 even if he wasn't a few years later. His capabilities may have declined during that period. You might be aware that Martin Fido, the man that originally theorized that Nathan K. and Cohen were the same person, later discarded that idea, though Cohen continued to be his top suspect.

Macnaughten also spoke about unspecified private information that led him to suspect Druitt. I do think that being Mac's top suspect is enough to make Druitt a viable suspect, though he's not among my top suspects, because I think that so much of the case against him depends on taking Mac's word for it. I think that counts for something, but not a lot.

Which people that that we're aware of would you consider "actual detectives in the streets" and have named suspects?

[Lewis C]

Hi Fishy,

"There was a killer who killed and mutilated 5 women."

We must divest ourselves of this notion if we are ever going to stand a chance of solving the mystery.

Simon

If you mean that we must divest ourselves of the notion that the killer killed exactly 5 women, no more and no less, I agree. I think that he could have had as few as 3 victims, but most likely had at least 6.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Lewis C,

Macnaghten's unspecified private information that led him to suspect Druitt was a red herring which absolved the Metropolitan police from ever having suspected him. It was a clever move. The police knew nothing about him, but the family did? Puhleeze!

Simon

[rjpalmer]

I remember Sugden pointing this out and calling the "David Cohen" individual "a very ugly character indeed." I'm fairly certain this Cohen character would have much more success at cajoling and convincing a drunken prostitute to go with him/lead him into a dark alley for a "bit of the business."

Actually, the suspect that Sugden referred to as a "very ugly customer indeed" was the German hairdresser Charles Ludwig.

Sugden only had this to say about Cohen:

"I can find little to say in favour of [Fido's] theory that David Cohen, a lunatic found wandering at large in December 1888, was the murderer. But Fido is to be congratulated upon his explorations into asylum records at a time when their importance was generally unrecognized and his discovery of Aaron Kosminski in the archives of Colney Hatch Asylum was a find of major importance." (Page 401)

[FISHY1118]

Hi Fishy,

"There was a killer who killed and mutilated 5 women."

We must divest ourselves of this notion if we are ever going to stand a chance of solving the mystery.

Simon

Hi Simon , So there wasnt ''Serial Killer'' who was given the Nickname of ''Jack The Ripper ''? Please explain ?, am i missing something?