Macnaughten Memorandum

[robhouse]

I am not sure when Sims learned of the Memorandum, but according to the casebook page (http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/dagonet.html), it seems his first writings on the subject are January 1899, when he wrote:

"Almost immediately after this murder he drowned himself in the Thames. his name is perfectly well known to the police."

In March 1903, Sims wrote the following, which suggests that he understood the memo to have been submitted to the Home Office. Not sure if that was actually the case, but anyway:

""Jack the Ripper" committed suicide after his last murder - a murder so maniacal that it was accepted at once as the deed of a furious madman. It is perfectly well know at Scotland Yard who "Jack" was, and the reasons for the police conclusions were given in the report to the Home Office, which was considered by the authorities to be final and conclusive."

Rob H

[Jonathan H]

To Stewart

I think Anderson telling Griffiths in 1895 about the un-named Kosminski is what triggered an alarmed Macnaghten to propagate, in a couple of years, his preferred suspect, Druitt, and to head off what I think he perceived as his superior's ugly, anti-Semitic-driven agenda.

That is why, I believe, he composed the 'Aberconway' version, which he deceitfully claimed to Griffths, or at least Sims, was a copy of a 'final' and 'conclusive' Home Office Report -- which it was not.

Also, if I am wrong, why did Griffiths change the Druitt 'family' into 'friends'?

The dissemination of the un-named Kosminski and Druitt cannot be separated from the fact that Anderson and Macnaghten were rivals, and loathed each other.

They never mention the others' suspects, or even each others' existence in their respective memoirs.

To Johnr

I think that Macnaghten kept pics of the Ripper killiings not because he was a bit unsavory but simply because he believed, rightly or wrongly, that he, and no other policeman, had 'caught' Jack the Ripper -- albeit posthumously.

[Johnr]

Lingering Macnaghten Matters

I am indebted to you once again Stewart,

For taking time out despite your busy writing and researching tasks, to respond to questions which I should readily have been able to turn up here and elsewhere.

In my last post I said:

[I]"But how did Sims obtain the crime scene items for his Crime Museum? Like the alleged clay pipe? Did Sims have access to murder scenes?

I am not sure that Macnaghten's commandeering of the "red Ink JTR letter" original was as legal as his obtaining of copy prints of JTR murder victims.
(See Farson's book).[/I]


I would be very interested in your reply to those questions . Given your vast JTR holdings, your knowledge of police procedures, and your many years toiling in the vineyard of Ripper Studies.

I agree with you about Anderson and Macnaghten. And particularly, your scenario about Macnaghten sharing more details re the MM with Griffiths than Sims.

And to Jonathan,

Thanks for your response too.Whilst it is impossible at this remove to verify what passed unrecorded, between Macnaghten and Sims and others, I still feel Farquharson would have told vastly more people than has so far, been uncovered.

The Druitt Suspicion was his theory;almost his dogma or religion.
He was a Druitt " Enthusiast" in current parlance.

For this reason, I think, not only the 1891 pupil or ex-pupil , or local inhabitant, or local gossip, or fellow political colleague of Farquharson's, but countless dozens of others would have been aware of Farquharson's Theory.

But. Just as Macnaghten seems to have definitely heard his theory, so to, from some quarter to both Macnaghten and Farquharson, came a warning that some legal retribution might eventuate from publicly articulating the Farquharson Theory.

Is it possible the Treasury Solicitor or the Solicitor General was consulted after the possible suicide of JTR?

Another prospect which interests me about Macnaghten.

Was he a bit of an amateur psychologist? Was Anderson?

Macnaghten seems to have formed strong views about JTR's mental state and the particular mental affliction he suffered from. I wonder who Macnaghten consulted? JOHN RUFFELS.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Stewart,

I quote from your post #59 on this thread—

"The 'Macnaghten Memoranda' is written on official embossed 'Metropolitan Police Office' paper and remained in the Metropolitan Police files. It is dated 23rd Feb. 1894."

I have never handled or seen the original Macnaghten Memorandum, but I'm guessing that you have.

Could you please tell me if the PDF file as seen in 'Official Documents' on Casebook is the original 24th February 1894 document as written by MM.

Regards,

Simon

[rjpalmer]

Everyone always refers to Robert Anderson as Sir Robert Anderson.

But most theorists refer to Macnaghten as plain ol' Macnaghten.

Even the title of this thread misspells his name.

Sir Mel is given less respect than even Rodney Dangerfield.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Everyone always refers to Robert Anderson as Sir Robert Anderson.

But most theorists refer to Macnaghten as plain ol' Macnaghten.

Even the title of this thread misspells his name.

Sir Mel is given less respect than even Rodney Dangerfield.

It’s a good point Roger. I know that it suits some to wrongly portray him as an idiot though.

Cue my stalker……….

[mpriestnall]

It’s a good point Roger. I know that it suits some to wrongly portray him as an idiot though.

Cue my stalker……….

To coin a phrase.

[Michael W Richards]

Everyone always refers to Robert Anderson as Sir Robert Anderson.

But most theorists refer to Macnaghten as plain ol' Macnaghten.

Even the title of this thread misspells his name.

Sir Mel is given less respect than even Rodney Dangerfield.

Maybe because his Top 3 suspects for the "5 victims only" attributed to Jack include a man who was in jail during the murders, a local Polish jew who had "circumstances" which made him a strong suspect, and someone who committed suicide.

And as for Anderson, I just call him Mr Jew Hater.

[Bridewell]

"Nobody ever saw the Ripper"?

If Martha Tabram was a victim and reached the place of her demise by the most logical route then someone would almost certainly have seen him because there was a constable on fixed point duty at the entrance to George Yard until the small hours.

(When the weather improves I'll venture out and check what time the fixed point constables moved on.).

[jason_c]

Maybe because his Top 3 suspects for the "5 victims only" attributed to Jack include a man who was in jail during the murders, a local Polish jew who had "circumstances" which made him a strong suspect, and someone who committed suicide.

And as for Anderson, I just call him Mr Jew Hater.

Tbf he wasn't to know Ostrog was in jail. It's not as if he could search that stuff up on the internet.

[Darryl Kenyon]

"Nobody ever saw the Ripper"?

If Martha Tabram was a victim and reached the place of her demise by the most logical route then someone would almost certainly have seen him because there was a constable on fixed point duty at the entrance to George Yard until the small hours.

(When the weather improves I'll venture out and check what time the fixed point constables moved on.).

Hi Mr B
Not positive about this but didn't fixed point duties finish at night ? Maybe midnight ? I think I asked a similar question once regarding the fixed point duty near the end of Dorset st

Regards Darryl

[Joshua Rogan]

One AM, I believe. At least according to PC Lamb at the Stride inquest.

Telegraph 3 Oct;
"Constables at fixed-points leave duty at one in the morning. I believe that is the practice nearly all over London"

Not sure if that would have changed due to the bank holiday, though, in Tabram's case.

[Bridewell]

One AM, I believe. At least according to PC Lamb at the Stride inquest.

Telegraph 3 Oct;
"Constables at fixed-points leave duty at one in the morning. I believe that is the practice nearly all over London"

Not sure if that would have changed due to the bank holiday, though, in Tabram's case.

You are quite right. Just ventured out and retrieved my copy of Dickens's Dictionary of London 1888:

"Fixed Points (Police):

The undermentioned places are appointed as fixed points where a police constable is to be permanently stationed from 9pm to 1am"

The fixed points for H Division are worthy of their own thread so I'll start one if none already exists.

[Holmes' Idiot Brother]

McNaughten Memo

The important thing is that Donald Swanson, writing in his own copy of Mc's memoirs, not for any anyone else's viewing, agreed with Mc and added his own views about the suspects. The 3 men were not pulled out of a hat. We don't know what his private info was. I doubt we ever will. But his views cannot be ignored or explained away.

Cheers

I respectfully disagree and say that the MM can be safely ignored. McNaughten wasn't even technically on the police force at the time of the murders, and I highly doubt if he ever went to any of the locations or did any grunt work. Did Swanson? Unlikely. I will take the opinions of Abberline, Helson, Dew, et. al. way before I'll consider the opinions of these "desk jockeys." McNaughten's suspects are an absolute joke, and I believe he did quite a disservice to the investigation.

[Simon Wood]

The Macnaghten Memorandum.

One of the the greatest works of fiction known to man.

Regards,

Simon