A Halloween Mystery: The Monro Standpoint

[Abby Normal]

Hi,

thanks and I agree.

Same time frame albeit a little longer than just for the canonical five. But my data sources (sorry I can´t give them to you yet) shows there is a very clear reason to interpret this time frame as the correct one.

Same general location - also a larger area than for the canonical five but this is very easy to explain in the light of my sources.

Unsolved, yes. And amazing of course that he managed to work both indoors and outdoors without being discovered.

Abdominal mutilations, yes, and it shows that his signature was constant and did not change. He stuck to certain methods and was focused on doing as much mutilation as possible given the possibilities of the crime scene.

I didn´t know that there were similarities in the mutilations between Jackson and Kelly. Very interesting.

Thanks for your post.

Regards Pierre

Hi Pierre

And amazing of course that he managed to work both indoors and outdoors without being discovered.

yes. and I often felt if they were the same man then the torso victims are when he could use a private location and the ripper victims were when he could not, and had to kill outdoors, or somewhere other than his place, like with Kelly.

I didn´t know that there were similarities in the mutilations between Jackson and Kelly. Very interesting.

Yes. researcher extrodinaire and poster here Debra Arif has written extensively about the torsos and specifically about the similarities between Jackson and Kelly.

Do you think the killers occupation and or station in life helped him remain undiscovered because the police weren't expecting that type of man?

[Pierre]

Do you think the killers occupation and or station in life helped him remain undiscovered because the police weren't expecting that type of man?

Well, I don´t know if the police were expecting this type of killer but I certainly think he had a quality that helped him remain undiscovered.

Regards Pierre

[Abby Normal]

Well, I don´t know if the police were expecting this type of killer but I certainly think he had a quality that helped him remain undiscovered.

Regards Pierre

what quality would that be?

also, do you think he must have had anatomical knowledge or surgical experience?

[Pierre]

what quality would that be?

also, do you think he must have had anatomical knowledge or surgical experience?

I am truly sorry but I can´t answer your first question.

As to your second question, he did have anatomical knowledge but he was not a doctor.

I think one has to understand that this person was extremely dedicated to what he was doing. He had a lot of experience, had special skills, was highly intelligent, knew what he wanted to do and how to do it without getting caught.

Regards Pierre

[Craig H]

Thomas Barnardo

PCDunn’s earlier suggestion of “Thomas Barnardo” may be worth exploring further.

I know Vanessa Hayes and Gary Rawlings had previously conducted research in this area.

They provide an alternative view of the man who played a key role in rescuing more than 60,000 homeless children in London and established a well respected charity that still helps many people today.

Hayes and Rawlings describe Thomas Barnardo as a man who was kind and compassionate to children, but was abrasive and domineering with adults.

He was a Brethren who abhorred the unfortunates who brought so many children into the world with no families.

He had previously studied to be a Doctor, had dissected bodies in a morgue, and studied gynecology.

His family was Irish, but he also spent some time in America.

They argue his “Dear Boss” letters, and the killings, were used to inflict fear into prostitutes and to bring national focus onto the incredible poverty in inner-London (which it did).

The October 5, 1888 “Dear Boss” letter says ”If she was a whore, God will bless the hand that slew her”

The other co-incidence was that Barnardo had a long-term relationship with Robert Anderson Relationship with Robert Anderson who was on the Management Committee of Barnardo’s “East End Juvenile Mission” since 1878.

Rawlings suggests that Anderson may have told Barnardo about police surveillance (including plain clothes policemen and women) which may have led to Mary Kelly being killed indoors.

Finally, Hayes and Rawlings explain the murders stopped partly because Barnardo had an accident leading to loss of hearing.

I’m sure there are holes in their theories.

However, it made me think about Pierre’s thinking around identifying the Ripper would have shaken the British public’s confidence.

What do others think ?

Craig

[Rosella]

Thomas Barnado is a reasonable candidate, Craig. However, Pierre has said that his suspect was not a doctor, though he had medical knowledge. He said he was a new suspect whereas Barnado has been pointed to before and quite early on too.

Pierre also has also given rather contradictory statements about the British nation being shocked when they find out, that he was a beloved figure and the disclosure would shake the British nation to its core but that he is now unknown.

That wouldn't really describe Barnado, would it, as through Dr Barnado's Homes (though they have changed their name) he is known in Britain today. However, IMO he isn't a big enough figure to inspire the sort of shock and sadness in the British that Pierre hinted at in early posts.

As for Bernado being a true blue suspect for Jack, do we know where Barnado was on the relevant nights in 1888? There's also the question of whether the killer, whoever he was, also wrote the letters/postcard bearing the Ripper signature.

[Pierre]

Thomas Barnado is a reasonable candidate, Craig. However, Pierre has said that his suspect was not a doctor, though he had medical knowledge. He said he was a new suspect whereas Barnado has been pointed to before and quite early on too.

Pierre also has also given rather contradictory statements about the British nation being shocked when they find out, that he was a beloved figure and the disclosure would shake the British nation to its core but that he is now unknown.

That wouldn't really describe Barnado, would it, as through Dr Barnado's Homes (though they have changed their name) he is known in Britain today. However, IMO he isn't a big enough figure to inspire the sort of shock and sadness in the British that Pierre hinted at in early posts.

As for Bernado being a true blue suspect for Jack, do we know where Barnado was on the relevant nights in 1888? There's also the question of whether the killer, whoever he was, also wrote the letters/postcard bearing the Ripper signature.

Hi,

Why should this person be a "reasonable suspect" or a "possible suspect"?

I think it is absurd. How poor data can one build a theory of the killer on?

"Suggested as a possible Ripper suspect, first by Donald McCormick in 1970, and more recently by theorist Gary Rowlands in the book The Mammoth Book Of Jack The Ripper. Rowlands put forward the notion that Barnardo's lonely childhood and religious zeal led him to slaughter prostitutes to clear them from the streets, and that he only stopped killing because of an accident in a swimming pool shortly after murdering Mary Kelly left him totally deaf. He was thus unable to listen out for sounds, such as the approaching footsteps of a patrolling policeman, which in turn forced Jack the Ripper into early retirement. Interesting theory."

(http://www.casebook.org/ripper_media...morley/12.html)

If this is an "interesting theory" I must say that my reluctance to disclose the name of my so called suspect could be defined as bizarre.

Regards Pierre

[Rosella]

Your reluctance to disclose your 'suspect' isn't bizarre, Pierre, just irritating and boring. I don't think Barnado was the Ripper. However, he had some medical training, knew the Whitechapel/Spitalfields area and was apparently known to some of the poor women in the locale and may have spoken to Stride shortly before her death at a meeting in a doss house.

[GUT]

Your reluctance to disclose your 'suspect' isn't bizarre, Pierre, just irritating and boring. I don't think Barnado was the Ripper. However, he had some medical training, knew the Whitechapel/Spitalfields area and was apparently known to some of the poor women in the locale and may have spoken to Stride shortly before her death at a meeting in a doss house.

Boring, that's the word.