Where was Bishopsgate police station?

[DJA]

+1

Some reckon she was prostituting herself,although she had no known history of doing so,

[packers stem]

+1

Some reckon she was prostituting herself,although she had no known history of doing so,

Agreed

[All4One]

I don't like to cast aspersions on a lady's reputation, but all the victims (except Kelly) were discovered against walls or fences suggesting that they were adopting the 'brace yourselves' position with their hands against the wall and their back turned to the killer.

[Jeff Leahy]

If Eddows returned to the same spot she was arrested from that night..

To her set patch near Aldgate Station..

Apart from Kelly and Stride, isn't it interesting to note the possibility that jack could have made contact in a very short stretch of Whitechapel high street from Aldgate Station to Osbourne Street with his victims before going with them?.

If the woman took jack to there preferred place for business then it was Endows that crossed into City Police territory not Jack.. The others if you do the distance to there murder spots travelled similar distance.

Tabram = Gunthorpe + Whitechapel High st = George Yard

Smith = Osbourne + Whitchapel High St = Junction Brick Lane

Nichols = Osbourne + Whitchapal High ST (Opposite direction) = Bucks Row

Chapman = Osbourne or Middlesex Street + Whitechapel High St = Hanbury St

Eddows = Aldgate Station + Whitechapel High Street = Mitre Sq

And on the opposite side of the road was the White Chapel from where you'd have a great view of these women on the other side of the road..

Yours Jeff

[Monty]

I don't like to cast aspersions on a lady's reputation, but all the victims (except Kelly) were discovered against walls or fences suggesting that they were adopting the 'brace yourselves' position with their hands against the wall and their back turned to the killer.

Nichols - Entrance to Browns Yard
Chapman - yard of no 29 Hanbury St.
Stride - Entrance to Dutfields Yard
Eddowes - Entrance to Heydemanns Yard.

Prostitutes often used yards and their entrances to conduct business.

As for Eddowes meeting someone, there is no evidence of this.

Monty

[Jeff Leahy]

Nichols - Entrance to Browns Yard
Chapman - yard of no 29 Hanbury St.
Stride - Entrance to Dutfields Yard
Eddowes - Entrance to Heydemanns Yard.

Prostitutes often used yards and their entrances to conduct business.

As for Eddowes meeting someone, there is no evidence of this.

Monty

Hi Monty

Trusting you are well.

I think it fairly safe to assume Endows met someone, because she was soliciting..

If these girls did keep to there own patch or territory it might make sense that Ededows returned to her patch near to where she was arrested a few hours earlier...

A man is seen in Whitchurch lane, I'm presuming this is covered by MET police?

A watchman did see a man and a woman together 1.30 am at Aldgate Station shortly before Lawende saw a man and woman 1.35 am.

The watchman saw the man return alone via Mitre Street

Presumably this is City Police territory, do we know how their beats intersect MET beats around Aldgate Station in 1888?

MacNaughten tells us there was a City PC witness and this would make some sense, but I don't think it was Watkins or Harvey...

Once someone passed Aldgate Station the most direct route is left into Goulston street towards the grafitee

Yours Jeff

[Rosella]

This is extremely interesting, Jeff. Which watchman was this that saw a couple at Aldgate Station then a man returning alone? Was it WIlliam Hills? Of course, if the apron wasn't found until 2:55 am that's quite a gap, but did Long miss it?

[Jeff Leahy]

This is extremely interesting, Jeff. Which watchman was this that saw a couple at Aldgate Station then a man returning alone? Was it WIlliam Hills? Of course, if the apron wasn't found until 2:55 am that's quite a gap, but did Long miss it?

Hi Rosella

I was referring to New York Times 2 October 1888

http://www.casebook.org/press_report...nyt881002.html

1 October a constable not far from Mitre Square... and a watchboy near Aldgate Station... Aldgate Station is not far from the entrance Mitre Street...

"The only trace considered of any value is the story of a watchboy who saw a man and woman leave Aldgate station, going towards Mitre-square. The man returned shortly afterward alone. The police have a good decription of him". ?

The Witness in white church lane:

The star (1st october) reported "from two different sources have the story that a man when passing through church laneat about half past one saw a man sitting on a door step and wiping his hands. as every one is on the look out for the murderer the man looked at the stranger with a certain amount of suspicion, where upon he tried to conceal his face. he is described as a man who wore a short jacket and a sailors hat."

The Daily Telegraph, Tuesday, 2 October, 1888:

"a man was, later in the day, brought to the Leman-street Police-station by a constable who found him prowling about not far from Mitre-street. His face was haggard, and he seemed unable to give any account of himself. Upon him were found 1s 4½d in money and a razor, and round his throat was a woollen scarf of a violet colour, upon which were several long hairs, supposed to be those of a woman." (1 October 1888)

Edward Watkins (City Police Constable 881) stated: I went on duty a quarter to ten...

Louis Robinson (City Police Constable 881) stated: On the 29th at 8.30 I was on duty in Aldgate High Street ... he found Eddowes lying on the footway (29 Aldgate High Street) drunk... I got assistance... No one particular appeared to be in her company when we first picked her up... The last time I saw her in the Police Cell was at 10 to 9...

George Simmons (City Police Constable 959) = assistance of PC Robinson...

I'm interested in the City Policeman on duty of the night of the murder because of these reports..

Sims:

“The policeman who got a glimpse of Jack the Ripper in Mitre Court said, when some time afterwards he saw the Pole, that he was the height and build of the man he had seen on the night of the murder.”

Macnaughten:

“This man in appearance strongly resembled the individual seen by the City PC near Mitre Square”.

I believe that MacNaughten was directly quoting a file on Kozminski and therefore everything he says about Andersons suspect can be taken at face value... "there were many circumstances"

Yours Jeff

[Rosella]

Hi Jeff,

Thank you very much for taking the trouble to post this info. Very intriguing and sheds another light on the Mitre Square business and night of the Double event.

[Monty]

Jeff,

If I recall correctly, the Aldgate tube cutting was raised way back in 2000, it may be archived somewhere.

You need to take your Kosminski bias out of the equation when totting up statements made by men who were either not on the scene, nor in post, when they made them.

Monty


PS, I do not know who, out of the Bishopsgate patrols, was on duty in that area that night, but I do know roughly all the beats.

[Jeff Leahy]

Good morning Monty trusting you are well

Jeff,
If I recall correctly, the Aldgate tube cutting was raised way back in 2000, it may be archived somewhere.

http://www.casebook.org/press_report...nyt881002.html

You need to take your Kosminski bias out of the equation

The word 'Bias' is yours here.. However clearly I only see Kozminski as a credible suspect because of what Anderson MacAnughten and Swanson say...

My aim is to create a unifying model that joins these police statements together and MacNaughten clearly says there was a City PC witness..

The only question is who?

So what I'm interested in are the police patrols and what streets they covered and where MET and City patrols bordered.

As your probably the worlds 'best' expert on such matters I was wondering if you knew if such a map existed and who would have been on patrol at what times?

when totting up statements made by men who were either not on the scene, nor in post, when they made them.
Monty


PS, I do not know who, out of the Bishopsgate patrols, was on duty in that area that night, but I do know roughly all the beats.

Any information you might be able to provide would be extremely helpful.

How difficult would it be to create a colour coded map demonstrating these patrols the coppers doing them something about the policeman? It would make a great 'interactive' would it not?

My real interest is the patrols along Aldgate where they met the MET patrols and whether a City PC could have seen someone in Mitre Street?

Yours Jeff