Leaving one's beat

[David Orsam]

If we assume that the Dickens compilers weren't making it up as they went along, they seem to have someone in authority at the Metropolitan Police saying that knocking up was part of a beat officer's duty.

I'm surprised you say this Bridewell. I thought you had read my article in which I posted the Police Orders which say the very same thing as in Dickens (and, indeed, Dickens is doing no more than repeating what was in Police Orders).

What it wasn't IMHO was a higher priority than investigating what Cross and Paul had reported because the first duty of a constable, from the foundation of the Metropolitan Police (and laid down by Rowan & Mayne) was the protection of life.

This is undoubtedly true but how did attending to a supposedly drunk woman lying in the street (in another beat) involve protection of life?

Was a beat officer responsible for EVERY drunk person on EVERY other beat in London?

[David Orsam]

Excellent, detailed stuff David. As per...

Thanks HS.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I really can't take over every thread on this forum with talk of my next book (about 80s pop music!), and you'll have to wait to find out why I am talking about Jack the Ripper in it, so let's get back to leaving one's beat....

Anyone interested in the subject is advised to read my OP in this thread ('The Conflicts of PC Mizen'):

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=8561

I subsequently learnt more about fixed points; see the short sub-article entitled 'Not So Fixed Points' about halfway down the page here:

http://www.orsam.co.uk/somethoughts.htm

Excellent, detailed stuff David. As per...

[Bridewell]

Firstly an apology to David Orsam for not having answered a question posed three years ago. Actually I pretty much agree with the reply now given by another poster, in that a report of a woman being either dead or drunk would require an immediate response, as Mizen only had the opinion of Cross and Paul as to her actual state. She might have been seriously ill or dying, rather than dead or drunk, and it was the officer's duty to check.

Since the question was first posed I have posted the following extract from "Dickens's Dictionary of London 1888" on another thread:-

"SPECIAL DUTIES:

The following questions have been submitted to the Metropolitan Police Department and have received the annexed replies:

Whether the police on ordinary night duty are allowed to be made available for calling private individuals in time for early trains etc.

The police are not only allowed, but are taught that they are bound to render this or any other service in their power to the inhabitants."

If we assume that the Dickens compilers weren't making it up as they went along, they seem to have someone in authority at the Metropolitan Police saying that knocking up was part of a beat officer's duty. What it wasn't IMHO was a higher priority than investigating what Cross and Paul had reported because the first duty of a constable, from the foundation of the Metropolitan Police (and laid down by Rowan & Mayne) was the protection of life. I can't go along with the argument that, as Nichols was in fact dead, she was a lower priority than knocking-up - because Mizen didn't know that she was dead. My recollection (I don't have access to my copy of "The Ultimate" to check this) is that Cross and/or Paul denied making any reference to a constable being already present on Bucks Row. Did Mizen make that bit up? It's unknowable, but I don't discount the possibility.

[DJA]

I really can't take over every thread on this forum with talk of my next book (about 80s pop music!), and you'll have to wait to find out why I am talking about Jack the Ripper in it, so let's get back to leaving one's beat....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyclnTdrSOI

[Robert St Devil]

if he had detained them or written down their names and addresses then i would say yes. imagine had the conversation gone like this:

PC Neil:. hey, what are you doing here?
PC Mizen: two blokes told me there was a dead woman over here
N: two blokes! who were they?
M: umh, y'know, two blokes... walking... like, to work...

[harry]

If it's a question of did Mizen have reson to leave his beat and go to Buc'ks row,the answer is yes.The decision was his,there was no supervisor to direct him.He was acting on a report by members of the public.A police officer was trained to respond to such reports,and to act on his own initiative.
Should he have gone immediately or continued to knock up is a different question.

[David Orsam]

By the way, Inspector Davis of the Islington case, was he the model for Stephen Fry's Colonel Melchett

Glad you've got started on the book! You might have noticed that P.C. George Wood left his point duty to attend at 114 Rotherfield Street after being notified of Mrs Wootten's death...he says trying to bring thread back on topic.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Sorry David, I do drift off-topic sometimes.

I'll read your articles in the morning.

By the way, Inspector Davis of the Islington case, was he the model for Stephen Fry's Colonel Melchett

[David Orsam]

I really can't take over every thread on this forum with talk of my next book (about 80s pop music!), and you'll have to wait to find out why I am talking about Jack the Ripper in it, so let's get back to leaving one's beat....

Anyone interested in the subject is advised to read my OP in this thread ('The Conflicts of PC Mizen'):

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=8561

I subsequently learnt more about fixed points; see the short sub-article entitled 'Not So Fixed Points' about halfway down the page here:

http://www.orsam.co.uk/somethoughts.htm

[Herlock Sholmes]

Funnily enough, my next book (yeah, 80s pop music) contains no fewer than seven mentions of "Jack the Ripper". I kid you not. Pure coincidence actually.

But if that doesn't make you want to buy it when it comes out next year, nothing will!

I'm a bit of an old rocker myself (mainly of the progressive kind) but I know that the heavy metal band Judas Priest did a song called 'The Ripper.' Obviously there was Screaming Lord Such but that was what 60's or 70's. Can't think of any others though?

Strangely enough I was at a gig around 2 weeks ago seeing a Dutch band called Knight Area. I was sitting in the yard of the small venue with a pint and a fag and the band were sitting nearby. They were not surprisingly speaking in Dutch but I heard one guy say 'Jack The Ripper' twice. When I asked them he told me (he being the guitarist by the way) that he had a side project going and they were working on an album about Jack the Ripper.

There has to be a 'twist' to your book David? Or is it purely a 'history of?'

[David Orsam]

Funnily enough, my next book (yeah, 80s pop music) contains no fewer than seven mentions of "Jack the Ripper". I kid you not. Pure coincidence actually.

But if that doesn't make you want to buy it when it comes out next year, nothing will!

[Herlock Sholmes]

Abby,

I've already suggested tha David should write a ripper book but seeing how he operates I can understand the issue. It would be 1500 pages long with 150 pages of references and would make Sugden's book look like a poorly researched and hastily written pamphlet

[Abby Normal]

Thank you too Abby.

if you write a book on the torsos or the ripper or anything ripper related for that matter- I promise Ill buy it. : )

[David Orsam]

Thank you too Abby.