Leaving one's beat

[John G]

Did Mizen actually go to Buck's Row on his own initiative, or was he fetched? In his own testimony he says that he went to the spot and saw PC Neil. But Neil testimony says "seeing another constable in Baker's-Row, witness dispatched him for the ambulance"....Did they meet half way? Or did Mizen only move when Neil appeared nearby?

Not according to PC Mizen's evidence. Anyway, was Baker's Row within the parameters of his beat? What was he doing even approaching the area? Why did he discontinue his duty of knocking people up in order to wander off to Baker's Row?

[Elamarna]

Did Mizen actually go to Buck's Row on his own initiative, or was he fetched? In his own testimony he says that he went to the spot and saw PC Neil. But Neil testimony says "seeing another constable in Baker's-Row, witness dispatched him for the ambulance"....Did they meet half way? Or did Mizen only move when Neil appeared nearby?

Good spot Joshua. There is more to it than that involved, Neil did not as far as we know go far from the body, just across the road to the North side if we take his evidence as accurate.

It is so tempting to jump in now and give my take, but I shall not just yet.


Steve

[Elamarna]

Not according to PC Mizen's evidence. Anyway, was Baker's Row within the parameters of his beat? What was he doing even approaching the area?

John

The Western side of Bakers Row was Mizen's the Eastern side was Neil's..
His route went along the western side to Whitechapel Road.

Steve

[John G]

John

The Western side of Bakers Row was Mizen's the Eastern side was Neil's..
His route went along the western side to Whitechapel Road.

Steve

Hi Steve,

Thanks, that's clearly very significant. However, it still implies that PC Mizen stopped the important responsibility of knocking people up in order to wander off in the direction of PC Neil's beat. The salient question, of course, is why?

[David Orsam]

Did Mizen actually go to Buck's Row on his own initiative, or was he fetched? In his own testimony he says that he went to the spot and saw PC Neil. But Neil testimony says "seeing another constable in Baker's-Row, witness dispatched him for the ambulance"....Did they meet half way? Or did Mizen only move when Neil appeared nearby?

Either Mizen continued knocking up or he didn't. If he continued knocking up, what was he doing in Baker's Row being spotted by Neil? If he didn't then what made him stop?

[John G]

Either Mizen continued knocking up or he didn't. If he continued knocking up, what was he doing in Baker's Row being spotted by Neil? If he didn't then what made him stop?

Exactly! And what prompted him to head towards Baker's Row?

[Elamarna]

Exactly! And what prompted him to head towards Baker's Row?

John, he is already in Bakers Row, both Paul and Lechmere report him as coming out of old Montague street, this formed a junction with Hanbury and Bakers Row.

steve

[Elamarna]

Either Mizen continued knocking up or he didn't. If he continued knocking up, what was he doing in Baker's Row being spotted by Neil? If he didn't then what made him stop?

David

Good questions.

We cannot know if he stopped knocking up or not, he says he did. and of course he is not knocking up every house is he?

He comes out of Old Montague street according to Paul and Neil. we have two options do we not, either he is working clockwise or counter clockwise.
If Clockwise, Bakers row is the next part of his beat.

I fear I am going to have my hand forced here before I am ready.


steve

[John G]

John, he is already in bakers row, both Paul and Lechmere report him as coming out of old Montague street, this formed a junction with Hanbury and Bakers Row.

steve

Okay, excellent spot. But if he was summoned directly by PC Neil, why didn't he just say so? I mean, all he had to say is that he was approached by Cross and Paul and shortly afterwards he was called over by PC Neil. But he doesn't say this.

[Joshua Rogan]

Either Mizen continued knocking up or he didn't. If he continued knocking up, what was he doing in Baker's Row being spotted by Neil? If he didn't then what made him stop?

My understanding is that Cross and Paul found Mizen at the point where Hanbury St, Old Montague St and Baker's Row all converge, so he was practically in Baker's Row. His beat might have taken him in that direction anyway. Conversely, I don't think it's possible to see as far as Baker's Row from the murder scene due to the slight curve of the road.
Perhaps Neil meant White's Row, or that he saw the PC coming from the Baker's Row end?

Edit...I see this has already been mentioned.

[Joshua Rogan]

I fear I am going to have my hand forced here before I am ready.

Sorry Steve, forget I said anything!

[Herlock Sholmes]

I wish that we could all be in a room with a map! I'm hopeless at directions so I'm struggling with this. I'm reluctant to ask because they will probably be stupid questions!

I know. It's never stopped you before, I can hear you say

[David Orsam]

He comes out of Old Montague street according to Paul and Neil.

Do they actually say he "came out of" Old Montague Street though Steve?

[David Orsam]

I don't think it's possible to see as far as Baker's Row from the murder scene due to the slight curve of the road.

That's certainly true today (and I assume it was the same then) but Neil wasn't necessarily rooted to the spot. In fact, he says he went and rang the bell of Essex Wharf and inquired if any disturbance had been heard. He only needed to move a small distance and he would, I think, have had a direct sight line up to Baker's Row (i.e. to see an officer with a lamp).

[Robert St Devil]

why not attribute his presence to pc neil at the inquest? why go in circles with Cross?