Leaving one's beat

[FrankO]

>>And why would he trust such a story?<<

Particularly if such story was told by two men with no sense of urgency or with any specific reasoning, as Mizen claimed they did. And why didn't Mizen ask any questions? It's all quite strange.

I agree, Dusty. Some say Mizen did nothing wrong. Perhaps not in the sense of protocol. I believe Christer even stated at one point or another that Mizen had no choice but to rely on his fellow policeman (or words to that effect), but, I would say 'obviously', that’s not true. He had 2 men with him who had just arrived from the place and, according to his own account, they had told him very little. So, why not ask them a couple of questions while he had the men still with him? Where is she lying exactly? Was the policeman already there when you arrived? What did he say exactly? Did you get a good look at the woman yourselves? Did she seem drunk to you? Did she talk? Was she moving? Could you see if she was hurt/sick?

[FrankO]

I recall someone can't remember who responded to a post from David a few years back saying church street or road (memory fails me) was an older name for Eastern end of Hanbury street so Church Row could be a corruption of that or maybe a term for a road off of it.

The name of the eastern end of Hanbury Street had indeed been Church Street in earlier days, Steve. I've seen it on different old maps.

[Elamarna]

>>I can be argued Neil did not blow his whistle has he knew there was a policeman end of street...<<

Without checking, I seem to remember there were specific police guide lines about blowing whistles in residential areas. Where's Monty when you need him?

Let me rephrase. He heard Thain and signalled as they could visually see each other. The whistle was not needed.

Steve

Steve

[John G]

The name of the eastern end of Hanbury Street had indeed been Church Street in earlier days, Steve. I've seen it on different old maps.

Church Street was in between Hanbury Street and Flower and Dean Street: https://booth.lse.ac.uk/map/16/-0.07...033.0,181900.0

[John G]

Charles Booth's Poverty Map is an excellent geographical resource of the period: https://booth.lse.ac.uk/map/14/-0.1174/51.5064/100/0

It even has a search feature!

[Elamarna]

Harry & Robert,

It's a very good motive and very close to my view on the events. Although I take it a bit further.
There is no conspiracy as you say Robert, it just a man who has made a mistake, which had no material affect on the crime, trying to protect his reputation.

John, because he was concerned about his reputation. Without the Lloyds story he may have indeed told the truth with perhaps a minor spin. With it his hand was forced or take the consequences.

The different versions of events were not seen as a major issue it seems in 1888, and were not until the proposal of Lechmere as the killer. Then a minor issue is expanded to suggest Lechmere is lying.

I think it time to put those events back into perspective, and I will give the detailed argument for that in the coming months (part 3)
This thread is a great example of why I am not posting yet, ideas are flowing which need to be assessed fully before the final write-up is completed.

Steve

[Sam Flynn]

Charles Booth's Poverty Map is an excellent geographical resource of the period: https://booth.lse.ac.uk/map/14/-0.1174/51.5064/100/0

It even has a search feature!

Thanks, John. I have a deluxe full set of Booth maps in "wall-chart" format, but that search feature is really handy. Ideal for browsing! (I never knew, until now, that there used to be a smallpox hospital on the site of today's Royal Free in Hampstead.)

[Elamarna]

Charles Booth's Poverty Map is an excellent geographical resource of the period: https://booth.lse.ac.uk/map/14/-0.1174/51.5064/100/0

It even has a search feature!

I agree John use it myself in conjunction with the OS maps and Goad

The church street I was talking about is older than the booth maps and a different one you mention.

Steve

[Joshua Rogan]

The name of the eastern end of Hanbury Street had indeed been Church Street in earlier days, Steve. I've seen it on different old maps.

Goad Vol XI sheet 324-1 names the eastern end as "Hanbury St (late Church St)"

[Joshua Rogan]

Since I'm looking at Goad maps, Vol XI sheet 312-1 shows a stable block and storage shed for carts and vans in Corbet's Court, which is where Paul was said to have worked as a carman.

[Elamarna]

Since I'm looking at Goad maps, Vol XI sheet 312-1 shows a stable block and storage shed for carts and vans in Corbet's Court, which is where Paul was said to have worked as a carman.

Good find Joshua, so it could be that he did work at Covent Garden after all.

all good stuff


steve

[FrankO]

Church Street was in between Hanbury Street and Flower and Dean Street: https://booth.lse.ac.uk/map/16/-0.07...033.0,181900.0

I have no doubt about that, John, but the eastern end of Hanbury Street was also called Church Street before 1888. Here's a map of 1873:

[FrankO]

Goad Vol XI sheet 324-1 names the eastern end as "Hanbury St (late Church St)"

Thanks, Joshua!

[Elamarna]

Goad Vol XI sheet 324-1 names the eastern end as "Hanbury St (late Church St)"

great Joshua,

Paul said "Church Row", so either he used the wrong name, or Row referred to Bakers Row?, may well have been a local name rather that official.


steve

[John G]

Thanks, John. I have a deluxe full set of Booth maps in "wall-chart" format, but that search feature is really handy. Ideal for browsing! (I never knew, until now, that there used to be a smallpox hospital on the site of today's Royal Free in Hampstead.)

The Booth deluxe street maps must be quite impressive, Gareth. I've noticed you can purchase the maps in poster format quite cheaply, but the quality appears to be mediocre.

I also find the search feature useful, although I've noticed that it's based on current place names, so if you want to find Berner Street, for example, you need to search for Henriques Street!