PC Amos Simpson

[Amanda]

Interesting twist...

Hi Guys,

Maybe irrelevant but this puts an interesting spin on things:

In 1871 Jane Wilkins (later to become Mrs.Amos Simpson) was working as a servant for Abraham Mocatta & family.

For those who don't know - Abraham Mocatta was the Founder of the West London Synagogue of British Jews.

Amanda

[Robert]

Hi Mick

As I understand it (but could well be wrong) if he was an Acting Sgt then he could have been on the streets, but not on the beat. He would have been checking up on the constables who were on the beat.

Re Cheshunt, I don't know how well reported Cheshunt was in the Press. It was certainly a bit rural, to judge from the first item on the first image here :

http://www.open.ac.uk/Arts/history-from-police-archives/MphcR1/StationRecords/srRcbCheshuntSt1904.html

[mickreed]

I can't put a figure on it, but I have a feeling that two or three press mentions in a 25 year career isn't bad going, if a policeman wasn't involved in a well-reported and long-running trial. And of course there could be reports yet to emerge.

Maybe, and as you say, there may be more to be found.

But, it seemed a bit unlikely for a copper on the beat to be quite so invisible, and thought this might be suggestive.

And now it seems as though he may not have been on the beat, let alone undercover, by the later-1880s which reduces the likelihood of his being in Mitre Square.

[mickreed]

Hi Mick,
I've found a couple of press reports mentioning Amos Simpson. One where he is involved in an arrest & the other where he was assaulted by a drunken butcher while on duty in 'Ossulston Street'.
In court, Amos Simpson stated that he was suffering from great pain following the assault. It's in the Illustrated Police News, 1876.

Amanda

Hey Amanda.

Yes there are a couple from earlier on in his career. I have one from 1871. Of course, absence of evidence ain't evidence of absence, but he doesn't seem to feature much (at all?) in the 1880s - certainly not in the online sources. If, as Neil and Ed have suggested (assuming I'm reading them right), he was more of a desk jockey in Cheshunt, then that would explain it, and also make it even more unlikely that he was 'undercover' around Mitre Square.

Cheers

[Robert]

I can't put a figure on it, but I have a feeling that two or three press mentions in a 25 year career isn't bad going, if a policeman wasn't involved in a well-reported and long-running trial. And of course there could be reports yet to emerge.

[Amanda]

Press Reports

Cheers Neil

And may explain why he doesn't seem to figure in many (any?) press reports

Hi Mick,
I've found a couple of press reports mentioning Amos Simpson. One where he is involved in an arrest & the other where he was assaulted by a drunken butcher while on duty in 'Ossulston Street'.
In court, Amos Simpson stated that he was suffering from great pain following the assault. It's in the Illustrated Police News, 1876.

Amanda

[mickreed]

As Ed states, work is ongoing. He is doing his research, independent of my own research, and I must say that it seems he is coming to the same conclusion as I.

As for Special Duties, Simpsons position as a uniformed officer makes it unlikely he would work undercover, in fact it would be unprecedented.

He either was acting as duty sergeant, or a section sergeant. He was, as some stage, a reserve sergeant, and possibly clerk sergeant, which is supported by his role as a coroners officer.

Suffice to say, ALL of these roles are far removed from undercover work as suggested in Edwards book.

Monty

Cheers Neil

And may explain why he doesn't seem to figure in many (any?) press reports

[Monty]

Hey Lechmere,

This is obviously quite unscientific, but most Met coppers I've researched show up in press reports, or at the Old Bailey, as being court witnesses, or arresting officers, or whatever.

Amos doesn't appear to do do so. So could we read from this that he did a lot of undercover work, or just that he didn't get out of the station much and was more of a desk jockey?

As Ed states, work is ongoing. He is doing his research, independent of my own research, and I must say that it seems he is coming to the same conclusion as I.

As for Special Duties, Simpsons position as a uniformed officer makes it unlikely he would work undercover, in fact it would be unprecedented.

He either was acting as duty sergeant, or a section sergeant. He was, as some stage, a reserve sergeant, and possibly clerk sergeant, which is supported by his role as a coroners officer.

Suffice to say, ALL of these roles are far removed from undercover work as suggested in Edwards book.

Monty

[mickreed]

I know what the sources are. But it is work in progress, so I cannot say any more. The information known so far does not disprove the possibility that Simpson could have been seconded on some sort of special duty.

Hey Lechmere,

This is obviously quite unscientific, but most Met coppers I've researched show up in press reports, or at the Old Bailey, as being court witnesses, or arresting officers, or whatever.

Amos doesn't appear to do do so. So could we read from this that he did a lot of undercover work, or just that he didn't get out of the station much and was more of a desk jockey?

[mickreed]

I know what the sources are. But it is work in progress, so I cannot say any more. The information known so far does not disprove the possibility that Simpson could have been seconded on some sort of special duty.

Fair enough and thanks.

[Lechmere]

I know what the sources are. But it is work in progress, so I cannot say any more. The information known so far does not disprove the possibility that Simpson could have been seconded on some sort of special duty.

[mickreed]

Amos Simpson joined the Metropolitan Police in 1868 and he retired after serving his full term of 25 years in 1893. He was awarded a slightly inflated pension for a Constable, no doubt because he was an Acting Sergeant for so long.
Although in Hertfordshire, Cheshunt was covered by the Metropolitan Police until 2000.

Amos Simpson was living in Cheshunt in 1888, and he was based at Cheshunt Police Station.
It has been checked.

That sounds good, Lechmere. Do you have sources?

[mickreed]

Ellen G Simpson living (1945) a few doors down from Lawende's address in Mitchinson Rd ( then Norfolk Rd ) may have been related to Amos ? .

Probably not, Moonbeggar. There were 37 Ellen Simpsons on the 1945 London electoral roll alone . Yours was at 15 Mitchinson Road, where she can be shown living between 1945 and 1960.

She may have been Ellen G Bowden who married William HS Simpson in Paddington in 1923 and who may have had a child Audrey GS Simpson in 1925.

Having said that, until someone does the genealogy, we can't know for sure.

[Lechmere]

Amos Simpson joined the Metropolitan Police in 1868 and he retired after serving his full term of 25 years in 1893. He was awarded a slightly inflated pension for a Constable, no doubt because he was an Acting Sergeant for so long.
Although in Hertfordshire, Cheshunt was covered by the Metropolitan Police until 2000.

Amos Simpson was living in Cheshunt in 1888, and he was based at Cheshunt Police Station.
It has been checked.

[moonbegger]

Hi,

Henry Joseph Simpson died in 1943. He had married Bessie Emma Stearns, sister to Morris William, in 1907. Her death was reigstered in the Saffron Walden District in 1968. In the 1911 Census they were living in Cheshunt, Middlesex with no children listed as then living. The Birth Indexes list the mother's maiden name from September quarter 1911 onwards, but none are registered to a Simpson-Stearns pairing.

There's a website detailing the Stearns family;

Thank you Nashwan for such an informative reply ..

I am curious now to find out if the Ellen G Simpson living (1945) a few doors down from Lawende's address in Mitchinson Rd ( then Norfolk Rd ) may have been related to Amos ?

its a very tentative link , but if Lawende picked up the shawl near mitre sq , and passed it on to a friend or neighbor down his street , then years later it finds its way into the hands of Amos or his family living in the same street .
Is this too far beyond the realms of possibility .. I think it might just be but it would still be a curious coincidence if Ellen G Simpson is some kind of relation to Amos !

cheers all ,

moonbegger .