Dissertation- A curious find in Goulston Street by Derek Osborne

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  • Patrick Differ
    Detective
    • Dec 2024
    • 368

    #31
    Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
    Eddowes inquest.
    Coroner: “Had you been past that spot [in Goulston Street] previous to your discovering the apron?”
    PC Long: “I passed about twenty minutes past two o’clock.
    Coroner: “Are you able to say whether the apron was there then?
    PC Long: “It was not.”
    DC Halse: “At twenty minutes past two o’clock I passed over the spot where the piece of apron was found, but did not notice anything then. I should not necessarily have seen the piece of apron.”
    Two police witnesses in Goulston Street in the same place at approximately the same time. Yet neither reported seeing the other, the piece of apron, or the chalked message.
    The two policemen went their separate ways.
    Within the hour, PC Long would discover the piece of apron, and Detective Constable Halse would be first to notice at Golden Lane mortuary the piece of apron was missing from the deceased.
    You couldn't make this up.
    Thanks Simon. I dont believe there is any doubt the Ripper wrote the message and Toms points I believe are spot on.

    The significance of the message is that it tells us something about the killers thinking at the height of this double event. He took the time to state that " The Jews are the men that will be blamed".

    Written in a good school boys hand tells us that whoever this killer was he was educated in English. In my mind this says Englishman, not immigrant. Not Yiddish and not a Polish Jew.

    My thought regarding Stride and Eddowes and the apron and GSG is that the killer made his only possible mistake. Why was he headed West after killing Stride? Why were all the murders up to that point in Metro? Because as a local he knew Police habits. He knew his adversary. It was his turf.

    After being interrupted with Stride and his lust unsatisfied he took his only severe risk by murdering Eddowes in London City. On his journey west to his bolt hole. If his bolt hole was between Mitre Square and Goulston Street then his rationale might make more sense.

    The London City Police were now on his tail. He would need to throw them off somehow and not living far from Goulston and knowing its location ( again his turf), he had to draw the focus back to Metro. He seems to have avoided Halse and whoever was being drawn into the area.

    Halse and Long ( who was knew to the beat) never apparently crossed paths. In fact Long had no clue about Stride or Eddowes. Why would he? He was just a beat cop who was never called by whistle or anything else.

    How hard would it be for a man to walk 3 or 4 blocks from his home to Goulston which was only 3 blocks from the London City boundary?

    The killer did not travel north, south or east after killing Stride. He went west to London City. He then left evidence close to the City in Metro.

    And his next murder? In Metro, close to Hanbury and not far from London City.

    The witness Hutchinson claims to have posdibly seen the man he saw with Kelly several days later on Middlesex Street. The Metro- London City boundary.

    Whoever this killer was I do not believe it was an immigrant. I do believe he was attempting to blame them, since they were already a primary focus of the Police. He may have had a personal axe to grind with them as well as the Unfortunates. He certainly had the Authorities chasing their tails.

    Comment

    • Simon Wood
      Commissioner
      • Feb 2008
      • 5561

      #32
      Hi Patrick,

      I don't believe there was any graffiti in Goulston Street.

      It started life as the BSG [Berner Street graffiti]. It wasn't until October 8th that it became the GSG.

      The Pall Mall Gazette reported—

      "The witnesses who saw the writing, however, state that it was similar in character to the letters sent to the Central News and signed ‘Jack the Ripper.’

      "The police, consequently, are very anxious that any citizen who can identify the handwriting should without delay communicate with the authorities…”

      The subtext: Identify Dear Boss and you've identified the author of the GSG.

      Fat chance. The GSG had been erased. Also, from reports, the GSG had been written in a completely different hand.

      The City of London and Metropolitan Police officers who recorded the chalked message offered a combination of seven variations as to its spelling, grammar, capitalization and linage. Also, there was no overall consensus as to the precise location of the chalked message within the entrance to the block of flats.

      There's was some really shoddy police work going on there.

      Regards,

      Simon
      Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

      Comment

      • Scott Nelson
        Superintendent
        • Feb 2008
        • 2524

        #33
        Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
        The Ripper absolutely thought about where he was boundary-wise. How could he not?
        Because he may have been so crazed that he couldn't think rationally about where he was and what he was doing.

        Comment

        • FISHY1118
          Assistant Commissioner
          • May 2019
          • 3843

          #34
          Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
          Eddowes inquest.
          Coroner: “Had you been past that spot [in Goulston Street] previous to your discovering the apron?”
          PC Long: “I passed about twenty minutes past two o’clock.
          Coroner: “Are you able to say whether the apron was there then?
          PC Long: “It was not.”
          DC Halse: “At twenty minutes past two o’clock I passed over the spot where the piece of apron was found, but did not notice anything then. I should not necessarily have seen the piece of apron.”
          Two police witnesses in Goulston Street in the same place at approximately the same time. Yet neither reported seeing the other, the piece of apron, or the chalked message.
          The two policemen went their separate ways.
          Within the hour, PC Long would discover the piece of apron, and Detective Constable Halse would be first to notice at Golden Lane mortuary the piece of apron was missing from the deceased.
          You couldn't make this up.
          Perhaps it wasnt then.
          'It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is. It doesn't matter how smart you are . If it doesn't agree with experiment, its wrong'' . Richard Feynman

          Comment

          • Patrick Differ
            Detective
            • Dec 2024
            • 368

            #35
            Originally posted by Scott Nelson View Post

            Because he may have been so crazed that he couldn't think rationally about where he was and what he was doing.
            This killer took 5 minutes to kill Eddowes. He murdered his victims in complete silence and escaped PC Watkins said he could hear his own footfalls in the Square. Im not sure how crazed the killer was as opposed to being methodical and controlled when performing the murders. Stun- cut throat- mutilate- escape. In every case.

            Its hard to believe the GSG did not exist as it appears to have been recorded, debated and erased. The bigger issue in my mind is the apron. This would have been the 5th event in the sequence that night.

            1.Strides murder
            2. Travel west to mitre square
            3. Eddowes murder
            4. Flight to a nearby bolt hole
            5. Deposit of Apron on Goulston

            Sequence 4 depends upon the assumption PC Long and DC Halse did not see anything at the entrance of #108 Wentworth Buildings on Goulston street immediately after Eddowes body was discovered at 1:45 am.

            It is possible that the apron was simply missed and the GSG was not there. But that does not explain why all this killers victims were murdered in Metro except Eddowes, a rebound kill after getting interrupted with Stride? And then the Apron is found in Metro.

            How irrational and uncontrolled did this killer behave? I see the opposite.

            Why did this killer murder these women ( except Eddowes) in Metro and so close to the London City boundary? Because he lived in the London City area between Mitre Square and Goulston Street? Would Metro even talk to a killer living in London City? The Apron deposit in Metro makes sense if this is the logic.

            What I find interesting is that after Mary Kellys murder the London City Police, Detective Robert Sagar, were watching a man on Butchers Row he said that, for certain, he was the murderer. But again they could not prove it. Was this killer actually contained? Eddowes claimed she knew the killer and the last 2 places she was seen were on Aldgate across from Butchers Row and Church Passage. Possibly a coincidence. And possibly not.

            Comment

            • Lewis C
              Inspector
              • Dec 2022
              • 1430

              #36
              Originally posted by Patrick Differ View Post
              Why did this killer murder these women ( except Eddowes) in Metro and so close to the London City boundary? Because he lived in the London City area between Mitre Square and Goulston Street? Would Metro even talk to a killer living in London City? The Apron deposit in Metro makes sense if this is the logic.
              Hi Patrick,

              I'm not sure that the Nichols murder can really be said to have happened "so close to the London City boundary". If that can be said, then I think it could be said that all of Whitechapel and Spitalfields is close to the London City boundary. So does the fact that all the murders occurred in Whitechapel or Spitalfields point to the murderer living in London City proper? It's certainly possible, but I wouldn't say probable.

              Comment

              • Scott Nelson
                Superintendent
                • Feb 2008
                • 2524

                #37
                Originally posted by Patrick Differ View Post
                Why did this killer murder these women ( except Eddowes) in Metro and so close to the London City boundary? Because he lived in the London City area between Mitre Square and Goulston Street?
                He killed them where he encountered them and when no one else was looking. Did he necessarily live between Mitre Square and Goulston Street? It sounds like you've picked Jacob Levy as the Ripper. But what the Ripper lived somewhere else?

                Comment

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