Candidates for Robert Sagars Jewish Butcher theory

[Patrick Differ]

Someome recently asked if a Copper could have been Jack the Ripper. It dawned on me that Robert Sagar was actually a Medical Student who changed vocation to Cop. He certainly would have had the skill. He also would have had knowledge with respect to the mutilatioms and how they were possibly done.

Its not clear when the Jewish Butcher was being watched but its safe to say it was sometime between Mary Kelly's death and 1891 when Kosminski was evidently sent to an Asylum. However he was not a butcher.

It begs the questions of who was living in the area that was a butcher and insane? Also who was Jewish? And who was either working on Aldgate Butchers Row or buying on Butchers Row and living with their brother or brother in Law? Where he lived was also being watched?

Robert Sagar was considered a highly intelligent person and highly regarded by his peers. He was also the nightly liason to Metro from City on these murders. This would indicate a level of involvement not afforded perhaps any other Constable or officer. Sagar appeared to be certain that the man they were watching was in fact the Whitechapel murderer.

A point regarding what the attending Drs like Brown and Phillips thought of the killer would indicate Butcher as a high probability, in comparison to barber, hairdresser, boot maker and other skills. This appears more based on haste, in the case of Eddowes, and the mutilations as carried out. Was this by process of elimination on the Who?

Who were the Jewish Butchers and Slaughterers conducting business on Butchers Row on Aldgate and the surrounding areas of Middlesex Street and Whitechapel High Street?
We know about suspect Jacob Levy, Joseph Hyam Levy, Morris Bossman, Solomon DeLeuw and the Louissons. Are there others,and who was known to be insane other than Jacob Levy?

Another question to ask is why was the Butcher involved with Butchers Row? The answer appears to be because thats where the licensed Kosher slaughterers were and where the Kosher Butchers bought their carcasses wholesale. Bossman, DeLeuw, Louisson were all Kosher Board members. It would be hard to imagine that both Jacob Levy and his cousin, both Kosher Butchers, did not conduct business on Butchers Row and the close knit Kosher Butcher businesses..

Jacob Levy is the only known Kosher Butcher who was convicted and spent almost 1 year in a lunatic asylum before the murders. While it is not impossible for it to be someone else, an insane Butcher, conducting business on Butchers Row, after the murder of Kelly and 1891 when the case was presumably closed.

Was there another Butcher for consideration?

Levy ended up in Stone Asylum in 1890. On his admission form it states " by friends", which is similar to Sagars commentary. In this case the friend was actually his older Sister Elizabeths husband- Isaac Barnett. Why say friend and not family?

Thoughts??

[Scott Nelson]

A guess would be that should a suspect's name leak out, there would be no direct ties to his family, who were actually the 'friends.'

[Patrick Differ]

A guess would be that should a suspect's name leak out, there would be no direct ties to his family, who were actually the 'friends.'

Thanks Scott. I agree that is possible. Although Isaac Barnett signed the Admission. Makes me wonder if Sagar was reading from the Admission - referred by friends? Maybe a coincidence.

The Levy's were a legacy anglicized Jewish family and I dont see them publicizing or sacrificing gains made in the 1870s ( accepted as Englishman) for Jacob if they knew he was the killer.

Just observations.

[seanr]

Fascinating place Butcher’s Row, sometimes referred to as the Aldgate Market. It’s certainly worth much more attention from researchers than it has usually received. It’s very close to Duke’s Place and the network of side-streets and alleyways around Houndsditch.

Its not clear when the Jewish Butcher was being watched but its safe to say it was sometime between Mary Kelly's death and 1891 when Kosminski was evidently sent to an Asylum. However he was not a butcher.

The City Police were observing Butcher’s Row at least as late as 1892. It can also be noted that even before the Mitre Square murder, City detectives had been searching the passages of houses in the immediate neighbourhood, where (I’ve heard) the doors were left open all night.

It begs the questions of who was living in the area that was a butcher and insane? Also who was Jewish? And who was either working on Aldgate Butchers Row or buying on Butchers Row and living with their brother or brother in Law? Where he lived was also being watched?

For all I know, there may have been many butchers and slaughter men working in the area, some of which may have had only cursory or occasional roles in the meat trade. Harrow Alley alongside Butcher’s Row was given the rather grim nickname of ‘Blood Alley’ for, oh some reason or other, I imagine.

One of more of the tradesmen around Butcher’s Row may have only narrowly escaped convictions for crimes of the most appalling violence, as opposed to Jacob Levy’s known conviction for theft of a weight of meat, which despite the 12 month sentence was surely a petty offence and one that may have been committed under a moment of economic desperation.

The man we suspected was about five feet six inches in height, with short, black, curly hair, and he had a habit of taking late walks abroad. He occupied several shops in the East End, but from time to time he became insane, and was forced to spend a portion of his time in an asylum in Surrey.

Thomson’s Weekly News, Saturday, 1 December 1906 via
Skinner, Keith; Evans, Stewart. The Ultimate Jack the Ripper Sourcebook: An Illustrated Encyclopedia (p. 708). Little, Brown Book Group. Kindle Edition.

Jacob Levy was five feet three inches and had spent time in an asylum in Kent, not Surrey.

I followed him to Lehman [sic] Street, and there I saw him enter a shop which I knew was the abode of a number of criminals well known to the police.

Thomson’s Weekly News, Saturday, 1 December 1906 via
Skinner, Keith; Evans, Stewart. The Ultimate Jack the Ripper Sourcebook: An Illustrated Encyclopedia (p. 708). Little, Brown Book Group. Kindle Edition.

Following him to a shop well known to the police is a bit of a tell. We know of a similar sounding shop run on nearby Backchurch Lane in 1902, run by a Lewis Miller supposedly as a cook shop, but really a ‘spieler’ or illegal gambling den linked to the Bessarabian gang. Perhaps this suspect was a man who was known to go for walks late at night, perhaps because of or with a gambling habit, who lived on Butcher’s Row.

This really doesn’t fit with Jacob Levy.

Sagar appeared to be certain that the man they were watching was in fact the Whitechapel murderer.

No, he wasn’t. He confessed to uncertainty, the report in Thompson’s Weekly News finishes on this note:

The mystery is as much a mystery as it was fifteen years ago. It is all very well for amateur detectives to fix the crime upon this or that suspect, and advance theories in the public press to prove his guilt. They are working upon surmise, nothing more.

The mystery can never be cleared up until someone comes forward and himself proves conclusively that he was the bloodthirsty demon who terrorised the country, or unless he returns to his crimes and is caught red-handed. He is still alive then? you ask. I do not know. For all I know he may be dead. I have personally no evidence either way.

Thomson’s Weekly News, Saturday, 1 December 1906 via
Skinner, Keith; Evans, Stewart. The Ultimate Jack the Ripper Sourcebook: An Illustrated Encyclopedia (pp. 709-710). Little, Brown Book Group. Kindle Edition.

Who were the Jewish Butchers and Slaughterers conducting business on Butchers Row on Aldgate and the surrounding areas of Middlesex Street and Whitechapel High Street?

We know about suspect Jacob Levy, Joseph Hyam Levy, Morris Bossman, Solomon DeLeuw and the Louissons. Are there others,and who was known to be insane other than Jacob Levy?

Solomon De Leeuw himself was end his days in an asylum in 1895. Economic fragility, poverty, alcoholism, gambling addictions were all common amongst the local community which means far too many of the local residents would have been in poor mental health, both those recognised and treated and those left untreated.

The ethicist Henry Stephens Salt noted the effects of work in the slaughtering and meat trade on the moral character of those employed by it, in his essay ‘A Plea for Vegetarianism’. He perhaps took a particular concern about Butcher’s Row in Aldgate elsewhere, noting the brutality of the place.

Another question to ask is why was the Butcher involved with Butchers Row? The answer appears to be because thats where the licensed Kosher slaughterers were and where the Kosher Butchers bought their carcasses wholesale. Bossman, DeLeuw, Louisson were all Kosher Board members. It would be hard to imagine that both Jacob Levy and his cousin, both Kosher Butchers, did not conduct business on Butchers Row and the close knit Kosher Butcher businesses..

Why was there a Butcher’s Row at all? - the answer as ever lies in economics, I imagine.

You may be getting De Leeuw confused with Levy Leuw, who also lived on Butcher’s Row. Solomon De Leeuw lost his license with the Schechita in October 1877, less than six months after it was granted. Although he continued trading for many years.

Jacob Levy is the only known Kosher Butcher who was convicted and spent almost 1 year in a lunatic asylum before the murders. While it is not impossible for it to be someone else, an insane Butcher, conducting business on Butchers Row, after the murder of Kelly and 1891 when the case was presumably closed.

There’s no evidence linking Jacob Levy to Butcher’s Row at all. He worked in Middlesex Street around the corner.

Jacob Levy has become a contemporary suspect, there’s no evidence that the original investigation suspected him at all. The entire case against him seems to be that he went into an asylum around the right time.

Hallie Rubenhold spoke to the descendants of Jacob Levy in episode 15 of season one of her ‘Bad Women’ podcast. I think it fair to suggest listening to what they had to say. https://open.spotify.com/episode/2lU...2e7adbbe254588

Reminder, whilst historical inquiry is reasonable, do bear in mind these are the, too often tragic, lives of real people we are talking about.

Was there another Butcher for consideration?

Probably more than we can ever know or count.

There’s much more that could be said about Butcher’s Row, perhaps in time, this place and its context will be much better understood. Geographically, it was very close to Duke’s Place and Mitre Square.

[seanr]

Bollocks, I've got it wrong. I've mixed up Henry Cox's reminscences with Robert Sagar's. D'oh. Corrected version below with corrections in bold.

---

Fascinating place Butcher’s Row, sometimes referred to as the Aldgate Market. It’s certainly worth much more attention from researchers than it has usually received. It’s very close to Duke’s Place and the network of side-streets and alleyways around Houndsditch.

Its not clear when the Jewish Butcher was being watched but its safe to say it was sometime between Mary Kelly's death and 1891 when Kosminski was evidently sent to an Asylum. However he was not a butcher.

The City Police were observing Butcher’s Row at least as late as 1892. It can also be noted that even before the Mitre Square murder, City detectives had been searching the passages of houses in the immediate neighbourhood, where (I’ve heard) the doors were left open all night.

It begs the questions of who was living in the area that was a butcher and insane? Also who was Jewish? And who was either working on Aldgate Butchers Row or buying on Butchers Row and living with their brother or brother in Law? Where he lived was also being watched?

For all I know, there may have been many butchers and slaughter men working in the area, some of which may have had only cursory or occasional roles in the meat trade. Harrow Alley alongside Butcher’s Row was given the rather grim nickname of ‘Blood Alley’ for, oh some reason or other, I imagine.

One of more of the tradesmen around Butcher’s Row may have only narrowly escaped convictions for crimes of the most appalling violence, as opposed to Jacob Levy’s known conviction for receiving stolen goods in the form of a weight of meat, which despite the 12 month sentence was surely a petty offence and one that may have been committed under a moment of economic desperation.

Henry Cox spoke about a Butcher’s Row suspect, is it the same man as Robert Sagar’s, or should we be considering Butcher’s Row suspects plural?

The man we suspected was about five feet six inches in height, with short, black, curly hair, and he had a habit of taking late walks abroad. He occupied several shops in the East End, but from time to time he became insane, and was forced to spend a portion of his time in an asylum in Surrey.

Thomson’s Weekly News, Saturday, 1 December 1906 via

Skinner, Keith; Evans, Stewart. The Ultimate Jack the Ripper Sourcebook: An Illustrated Encyclopedia (p. 708). Little, Brown Book Group. Kindle Edition.

Jacob Levy was five feet three inches and had spent time in an asylum in Essex, not Surrey.

I followed him to Lehman [sic] Street, and there I saw him enter a shop which I knew was the abode of a number of criminals well known to the police.

Thomson’s Weekly News, Saturday, 1 December 1906 via
Skinner, Keith; Evans, Stewart. The Ultimate Jack the Ripper Sourcebook: An Illustrated Encyclopedia (p. 708). Little, Brown Book Group. Kindle Edition.

Following him to a shop well known to the police is a bit of a tell. We know of a similar sounding shop run on nearby Backchurch Lane in 1902, run by a Lewis Miller supposedly as a cook shop, but really a ‘spieler’ or illegal gambling den linked to the Bessarabian gang. Perhaps this suspect was a man who was known to go for walks late at night, perhaps because of or with a gambling habit, who lived on Butcher’s Row.

This really doesn’t fit with Jacob Levy. So we’re plausible looking at another butcher suspect.

Sagar appeared to be certain that the man they were watching was in fact the Whitechapel murderer.

His colleague Henry Cox had a different view, he confessed to uncertainty, the report in Thompson’s Weekly News finishes on this note:

The mystery is as much a mystery as it was fifteen years ago. It is all very well for amateur detectives to fix the crime upon this or that suspect, and advance theories in the public press to prove his guilt. They are working upon surmise, nothing more.

The mystery can never be cleared up until someone comes forward and himself proves conclusively that he was the bloodthirsty demon who terrorised the country, or unless he returns to his crimes and is caught red-handed. He is still alive then? you ask. I do not know. For all I know he may be dead. I have personally no evidence either way.

Thomson’s Weekly News, Saturday, 1 December 1906 via
Skinner, Keith; Evans, Stewart. The Ultimate Jack the Ripper Sourcebook: An Illustrated Encyclopedia (pp. 709-710). Little, Brown Book Group. Kindle Edition.

Who were the Jewish Butchers and Slaughterers conducting business on Butchers Row on Aldgate and the surrounding areas of Middlesex Street and Whitechapel High Street?

We know about suspect Jacob Levy, Joseph Hyam Levy, Morris Bossman, Solomon DeLeuw and the Louissons. Are there others,and who was known to be insane other than Jacob Levy?

Solomon De Leeuw himself was end his days in an asylum in 1895. Economic fragility, poverty, alcoholism, gambling addictions were all common amongst the local community which means far too many of the local residents would have been in poor mental health, both those recognised and treated and those left untreated.

The ethicist Henry Stephens Salt noted the effects of work in the slaughtering and meat trade on the moral character of those employed by it, in his essay ‘A Plea for Vegetarianism’. He perhaps took a particular concern about Butcher’s Row in Aldgate elsewhere, noting the brutality of the place.

Another question to ask is why was the Butcher involved with Butchers Row? The answer appears to be because thats where the licensed Kosher slaughterers were and where the Kosher Butchers bought their carcasses wholesale. Bossman, DeLeuw, Louisson were all Kosher Board members. It would be hard to imagine that both Jacob Levy and his cousin, both Kosher Butchers, did not conduct business on Butchers Row and the close knit Kosher Butcher businesses..

Why was there a Butcher’s Row at all? - the answer as ever lies in economics, I imagine.

You may be getting De Leeuw confused with Levy Leuw, who also lived on Butcher’s Row. Solomon De Leeuw lost his license with the Schechita in October 1877, less than six months after it was granted. Although he continued trading for many years.

Jacob Levy is the only known Kosher Butcher who was convicted and spent almost 1 year in a lunatic asylum before the murders. While it is not impossible for it to be someone else, an insane Butcher, conducting business on Butchers Row, after the murder of Kelly and 1891 when the case was presumably closed.

There’s no evidence linking Jacob Levy to Butcher’s Row at all. He worked in Middlesex Street around the corner.

Jacob Levy has become a contemporary suspect, there’s no evidence that the original investigation suspected him at all. The entire case against him seems to be that he went into an asylum around the right time.

Hallie Rubenhold spoke to the descendants of Jacob Levy in episode 15 of season one of her ‘Bad Women’ podcast. I think it fair to suggest listening to what they had to say. https://open.spotify.com/episode/2lU...2e7adbbe254588

Reminder, whilst historical inquiry is reasonable, do bear in mind these are the, too often tragic, lives of real people we are talking about.

Was there another Butcher for consideration?

Probably more than we can ever know or count.

There’s much more that could be said about Butcher’s Row, perhaps in time, this place and its context will be much better understood. Geographically, it was very close to Duke’s Place and Mitre Square.

[seanr]

No, he wasn’t. He confessed to uncertainty, the report in Thompson’s Weekly News finishes on this note:

Address this part. I'm still not sure Robert Sagar was so confident the man he watched was the perpertrator. Morning Leader, 9 January 1905 coverage (and other reports) of Sagar's retirement quotes him saying this:

Asked about these mysterious crimes, Mr. Sagar said, despite the many stories which are told, the police never had proof who committed them.

[Patrick Differ]

Address this part. I'm still not sure Robert Sagar was so confident the man he watched was the perpertrator. Morning Leader, 9 January 1905 coverage (and other reports) of Sagar's retirement quotes him saying this:

The same article states that suspicion fell on a man who worked in Butchers Row...who was insane....and was no doubt the murderer. In this same article he states that this man was undoubtadley the murder. And as noted it was impossible to prove.

it is also in this article that Sagar talks about the man being sent to a private asylum by his " friemds". Strange since there were no private asylums for the lower classes. These were reserved for the Upper Classes.

Quite frankly it makes me wonder if this butcher was not the man that the supposed eyewitness refused to identify. A fellow Jew. And known to the eyewitness. Strange again since the Jews involved in the Israel Lipski trial had no qualms about convicting him.

To my knowledge the only Slaughterhouses in that area were behind Butchers Row. There were Butcher houses but not Slaughterhouses on Middlesex or Wentworth. I could be wrong but i havent found any. Did kosher butchers in that area have to9 buy from the Kosher Slaughterhouses on Aldgate ?

[seanr]

Did kosher butchers in that area have to9 buy from the Kosher Slaughterhouses on Aldgate ?

I don't think so, no.

By 1888, most of the actual kosher slaughtering was taking place in Deptford, about two thirds of all the kosher meat was slaughtered there, with the other third spread across other locations which included Metropolitan Cattle Market at Islington and Aldgate Market (Butcher's Row), amongst others.
Aldgate Market was situated close to the border of, but outside the City of London so was significant perhaps to the local Jewish community, but was of a much smaller scale than Deptford and Islington, which were connected by rail into Smithfield market.

I don't believe it was typical for carcass butchers to sell their wares directly in a shop. I understand it was much more usual to sell at a market, typically Smithfield than it was to sell directly out of a shop. For practical purposes, for the carcass seller it'd be easier to take many slaughtered animals to market and sell to a greater variety of buyers, than to sell directly to the local population.

And for the buyer, there'd be much more selection and so higher chance of getting a bargain by going to the market than buying from a local store, wholesale or otherwise. Certainly, the kosher meat from Deptford and Islington was unlikely to be being distributed via Aldgate Market.

To take one example, Solomon De Leeuw who we mentioned before was listed in the 1882 Commercial Directory, as having offices at 8 Bank buildings, Metropolitan cattle market, 6o West Smithfield & 73 Aldgate High street. From this, it can be seen that the meat salesmen of Butchers Row could be engaged in a large way of business in the city of London.

I may have said too much.

[seanr]

Butcher’s Row, Aldgate perhaps the oldest meat market in London, was closed for good on Tuesday. It is the centre of the kosher meat trade, supplying meat to most of the Jewish butchers in London. Its continued existence was impossible as all meat is now controlled by the Government and the kosher trade is being transferred to the Islington Market slaughter-houses. Rabbis examined the kosher meat at Aldgate for the last time on Tuesday morning, and their duties will be continued in the new premises.

East London Observer - Saturday 20 January 1940

If most of the Jewish butchers were supplied from there when it closed in 1940, perhaps the kosher meat from Deptford was distributed via Aldgate Market in 1888.

[Patrick Differ]

I don't think so, no.

By 1888, most of the actual kosher slaughtering was taking place in Deptford, about two thirds of all the kosher meat was slaughtered there, with the other third spread across other locations which included Metropolitan Cattle Market at Islington and Aldgate Market (Butcher's Row), amongst others.
Aldgate Market was situated close to the border of, but outside the City of London so was significant perhaps to the local Jewish community, but was of a much smaller scale than Deptford and Islington, which were connected by rail into Smithfield market.

I don't believe it was typical for carcass butchers to sell their wares directly in a shop. I understand it was much more usual to sell at a market, typically Smithfield than it was to sell directly out of a shop. For practical purposes, for the carcass seller it'd be easier to take many slaughtered animals to market and sell to a greater variety of buyers, than to sell directly to the local population.

And for the buyer, there'd be much more selection and so higher chance of getting a bargain by going to the market than buying from a local store, wholesale or otherwise. Certainly, the kosher meat from Deptford and Islington was unlikely to be being distributed via Aldgate Market.

To take one example, Solomon De Leeuw who we mentioned before was listed in the 1882 Commercial Directory, as having offices at 8 Bank buildings, Metropolitan cattle market, 6o West Smithfield & 73 Aldgate High street. From this, it can be seen that the meat salesmen of Butchers Row could be engaged in a large way of business in the city of London.

I may have said too much.

Sean- when Jacob Levy was convicted of meat theft from Hyman Sampson ( Old Bailey records) , Sampson testified that he and Levy bought from the same killer but then Sampson boasted that he sold more expensive meats. So they bought from a Slaughterer. They unfortunately did not testify to where?

My own view on this trial was that Levy may have been set up by Sampson to get rid of his competition. Sampson was an immigrant from Poland and it appears they became bitter enemies in less than 2 years.. Considering Sampsons boast and the economic climate at the time, it paints a stark reality of the brutal nature of economic depression.

The 12 month hard labor for receiving stolen goods sounds harsh but in fact Levy could have received much worse, including being hanged. I was actually shocked by criminal sentencing at this time. All for 14 lbs of meat for 7d/ pound?

Was Levy the Jewish Butcher being watched on Butchers Row? Levy was in a general population Victorian lunatic asylum for a year. Its hard to imagine the affect of that daily routine on a persons psyche. Yet somehow Levy was strong enough to handle it?

There could have been another Jewish lunatic butcher being watched of course and that was the reason for looking for other candidates. Levy is almost a perfect fit to this theory and the Doctors in this case certainly thought the victims bodies could have been cut as if a butcher would gut an animal.

If there is a wild card in the attacks it would be the kosher aspect of cutting the throats. Kosher required the stunning of the animal ( unconciousness) and cutting of throats to bleed out the blood, considered impure. Exactly what happened to the victims.

The search goes on. Sagar was an insider in this case. Did the anglicized Jewish community make a deal with the Police in the end to protect their " Englishness?". Was Kosminsky the imbecile-the convenient scapegoat? We told you it was an immigrant Polish Jew? He is now in an Asylum! So was Jacob Levy.