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PC Edward Watkins (City Police)

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  • #16
    Yes Colin,

    The perception is that CID, amongst many CID officers mainly, that they had a superior quality of men compared to uniform, which is completely misleading and incorrect.


    Jon,

    CID was born out of the detective department, which was re-structured after the trial of the detectives in 1878. The detective department was officially formed in 1842, before that detectives from Bow Street were used as the Mets detective force but they stopped around, from memory, 1838 or 39, with regular uniform constables donning plain clothes and undertaking the role on a monthly rota.

    However, Mayne was already toying with the idea of a specialist detective force since he was appointed joint commissioner in 1829. His working partner, Rowan, wasn't so keen, but recognising the current system was not impacting upon crime, came to agree with Mayne, this after the Daniel Good case (I think this is the incident you are referring to) where this murderer went on the run and it took the police many weeks to run him to ground.

    So Mayne and Rowan wrote to their boss, the Home Secretary requesting the formation of a detective team, and this was granted.

    Monty




    Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

    Comment


    • #17
      Thankyou Neil.
      I had learned that the first group of 'tecs' gathered together by Mayne were working in violation of the law of the land. It not being legal, at the time, to investigate 'people'. This was before the department was officially set up, it was in effect working in secret until the law was changed.
      If I recall, there was actually a documentary on this, The Secrets of Scotland Yard, or something similar.

      P.S.
      This must be it..
      http://www.pbs.org/program/secrets-scotland-yard/
      Last edited by Wickerman; 04-27-2014, 06:45 AM. Reason: Add video link.
      Regards, Jon S.

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      • #18
        That's right Jon,

        Mayne and Rowan used the Good case as a reason to justify their existance but yes, they kept on an unofficial team made up of former Bow Street Detectives, based on a list kept by Mayne.

        Monty




        Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

        http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

        Comment


        • #19
          I was just browsing the LMA, and found a document (a reference?) stating that Watkins was in the Metropolitan police for six months before resigning and joining the City of London police.

          https://search.lma.gov.uk/SCRIPTS/MW...0.9477%2C0.717

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          • #20
            From a thread on another website, that I thought might be of interest?
            Attached Files

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            • #21
              Would be interested to learn if any evidence is known that confirms the 1897 clasp?
              Attached Files

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              • #22
                If Watkins left in 1896 how did he get the 1897 clasp?
                "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins twisting facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (as Sherlock Holmes).

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Bridewell View Post
                  If Watkins left in 1896 how did he get the 1897 clasp?

                  That exact point has been raised on other medal forums. The common consensus seems to be that like the Metropolitan Police, retired officers were recalled for the 1897 Jubilee. But unlike the Metropolitan police were officers medal entitlements are documented, the same cannot be said for the City Police. So there is no way of ever confirming an Officers entitlement, but the fact that the medal exists and the clasp is plain to see, we must assume that WATKINS was one of the Officers recalled for such duty? Either that or it's a very convincing fake, whereby the forger has made the mistake of including the 1897 clasp? But looking at the medal it seems genuine to me so I believe it being a fake is very unlikely?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Bridewell View Post
                    If Watkins left in 1896 how did he get the 1897 clasp?
                    Something I noted also Colin,

                    As Gordon points out, retired Bobbys with exemplary records would be put on a reserved list and called upon if required. This chiefly happened around big ceremonies and state funerals. For coronations, the temporary O Division would be formed by the Met (the only other time you’d see a Met O collar is in TVs The Bill).

                    There is no mention of Watkins returning in 1897, and I’d expect there would be something interesting on his records. However, to be fair, Watkins record is incomplete.

                    I don’t wish to put doubt in the 97 clasp, it wouldn’t be fair to. The only explanation, again as Gordon states, is a return for Jubilee duties post retirement.

                    Monty




                    Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Monty View Post
                      Something I noted also Colin,

                      As Gordon points out, retired Bobbys with exemplary records would be put on a reserved list and called upon if required. This chiefly happened around big ceremonies and state funerals. For coronations, the temporary O Division would be formed by the Met (the only other time you’d see a Met O collar is in TVs The Bill).

                      There is no mention of Watkins returning in 1897, and I’d expect there would be something interesting on his records. However, to be fair, Watkins record is incomplete.

                      I don’t wish to put doubt in the 97 clasp, it wouldn’t be fair to. The only explanation, again as Gordon states, is a return for Jubilee duties post retirement.

                      Monty

                      Thanks, Neil & Gordon for your replies. I wonder if it was possible to buy the clasp and attach it. Perhaps the rules were different then. In 1977 the Silver Jubilee Medal was awarded only to officers who had completed (I think) 6 years service - so I missed out having done only 2 at that time. (Got the Golden one though!).
                      "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins twisting facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (as Sherlock Holmes).

                      Comment

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