PC Edward Watkins

[The Rookie Detective]

Just looking a little more into the witness PC Edward Watkins and have found some small, yet interesting details regarding his life.

What do we already know about him? I am reluctant to tread over old ground and so am rather curious to find out what we know, or think we know about the man who found Eddowes.

Is he considered a person of interest?

Just looking at the police angle; which i know has already been looked at extensively, but just want to take a fresh look



Thoughts please?

[Aethelwulf]

Imo total waste of time there are better suspects to spend time on. Watkins is just a joke suspect

[Fiver]

Just looking a little more into the witness PC Edward Watkins and have found some small, yet interesting details regarding his life.

What do we already know about him? I am reluctant to tread over old ground and so am rather curious to find out what we know, or think we know about the man who found Eddowes.

Is he considered a person of interest?

Just looking at the police angle; which i know has already been looked at extensively, but just want to take a fresh look



Thoughts please?

It's always good to take a fresh look, but Watkins is not a good suspect. Killing on his patrol route would have been an insane risk. Watkins did not touch the body, which would have provided an innocent excuse for blood on his hands and clothes. There's no way he could have had the time to go to Goulston Street and dropped the apron piece. Nichols and Stride were killed during the time of his normal patrol, but nowhere near it.

[Curious Cat]

Those familiar with some of my posts here may know I favour the idea that PC Watkins happened to choose to take an extended break close to where and just at the very time the murder of Catherine Eddowes took place. I believe he and George Morris, night watchman at Kearley & Tonge, were having tea and a chat in the warehouse at the crucial time. I don't think PC Watkins was on patrol much longer after 1am and believe he discovered the body shortly after leaving his tea break with George Morris at about 1:40am. He says he saw nothing at 1:30am to cover that he had no way of knowing if the body was there or not at that time but gives that time as it's when he should have last been in Mitre Square before the discovery.

He's not a suspect but PC Watkins may have inadvertently given the killer their luckiest break.

[The Rookie Detective]

What's interesting about Edward Watkins is that he lived with his house keeper for over half a century.
He never actually married Augusta Fowler but they were indeed together for a long time.

What I find particularly curious is that around the time of the rippers murders, he sent one of his teenage daughters to a nunnery/convent in Cornwall.

In 1891, his daughter Sophy Watkins aged 21, is based in Alverton House in Cornwall.

It's now a hotel and the building still stands today

He had at least 2 others daughters, but only Sophy was sent to the nunnery.


Sending your teenage daughter to a nunnery around the time of the ripper murders is interesting.

Sophy then disappears from the records.

Edward Watkins handwriting is also similar to some of the alleged ripper correspondences. I have seen 2 different examples of Edward Watkins handwriting and they look different even though they're from the same hand.

It's the little details that I find most interesting.

[Fiver]

What's interesting about Edward Watkins is that he lived with his house keeper for over half a century.
He never actually married Augusta Fowler but they were indeed together for a long time.

Perhaps his wife Mary Ann Clarkson Watkins wouldn't give him a divorce?

I don't know if it's the same person, but there's a Mary Ann Clarkson with the right birth month and year who according to Old Bailey Records was sexually assaulted when she was 5 years old. The scum that did it only got 10 years transportation.

What I find particularly curious is that around the time of the rippers murders, he sent one of his teenage daughters to a nunnery/convent in Cornwall.

In 1891, his daughter Sophy Watkins aged 21, is based in Alverton House in Cornwall.

It's now a hotel and the building still stands today

He had at least 2 others daughters, but only Sophy was sent to the nunnery.

Sending your teenage daughter to a nunnery around the time of the ripper murders is interesting.

It was 1891, three years after the Ripper murders. Perhaps Sophy got religion, she was also baptized in 1891. Or didn't she like her father shacking up with the housekeeper. Or possibly she was pregnant. Perhaps even more than one of the above.

Sophy then disappears from the records.

Sophy appears to have had a daughter Lily out of wedlock in 1896 and a son named Thomas out of wedlock in 1900. In 1902 she married a Thomas Richardson and had several children with him.

[The Rookie Detective]

Perhaps his wife Mary Ann Clarkson Watkins wouldn't give him a divorce?


It was 1891, three years after the Ripper murders. Perhaps Sophy got religion, she was also baptized in 1891. Or didn't she like her father shacking up with the housekeeper. Or possibly she was pregnant. Perhaps even more than one of the above.


Sophy appears to have had a daughter Lily out of wedlock in 1896 and a son named Thomas out of wedlock in 1900. In 1902 she married a Thomas Richardson and had several children with him.

Ah... I also found the same Edwin Watkins in the 1971 census with a wife called Mary and daughter Emily aged 4.
However, Edward William Watkins who married Mary Ann Clarkson is the wrong man.


The correct Edward Watkins in 1971 was listed as a policeman (born in St Pancras) and is lodging at a coffee shop at 2 Great Charlotte Street.

At this time he had children, but for some reason, he is lodging elsewhere.

Of course, it is possible that he is listed twice in the census, but i find that very unlikely.

On the 1911 census Edwin and Augusta state they have been married since 1862/63, but they were never married. All of Edward's children were born AFTER 1863 and so it's likely that the children were Augusta's children OR his actual wife was estranged and had left/died/gone into prostitution etc...

There's also another Edward Watkins around the same age who was listed as a hawker and lodging in Flower and Dean Street, but again, he is a red herring.


Interestingly, on one of the census records, Augusta is listed as Jessie.

But the information you have collated about Sophy is amazing and I never realized she went on to marry.

[Scott Nelson]

Did Watkins come face to face with the Ripper as he entered St. James Place (the Orange Market)?

[GBinOz]

Those familiar with some of my posts here may know I favour the idea that PC Watkins happened to choose to take an extended break close to where and just at the very time the murder of Catherine Eddowes took place. I believe he and George Morris, night watchman at Kearley & Tonge, were having tea and a chat in the warehouse at the crucial time. I don't think PC Watkins was on patrol much longer after 1am and believe he discovered the body shortly after leaving his tea break with George Morris at about 1:40am. He says he saw nothing at 1:30am to cover that he had no way of knowing if the body was there or not at that time but gives that time as it's when he should have last been in Mitre Square before the discovery.

He's not a suspect but PC Watkins may have inadvertently given the killer their luckiest break.

Hi Curious Cat,

I find your proposition that he was skiving off to be a definite possibility. It would certainly alleviate the doubts about the time needed to inflict the injuries. While it is probably a bridge too far to implicate Watkins as the ripper, Rob Hills has a dissertation here:

https://www.casebook.org/dissertations/rip-cats-cradle.html

that raises some suspicion about the involvement of Morris with Stride that is quite interesting.

Cheers, George

[GBinOz]

Did Watkins come face to face with the Ripper as he entered St. James Place (the Orange Market)?

Hi Scott,

Didn't one of the senior police suggest that the only person to get a good view of the ripper was a police constable? Said PC could have only been Watkins, or Smith, or Stephen White?

Cheers, George

[Michael W Richards]

Hi Scott,

Didn't one of the senior police suggest that the only person to get a good view of the ripper was a police constable? Said PC could have only been Watkins, or Smith, or Stephen White?

Cheers, George

PC Pearce said he could see the Mitre murder site from his bedroom window, although he also said he was asleep at the time of the murder.

[Scott Nelson]

Didn't one of the senior police suggest that the only person to get a good view of the ripper was a police constable? Said PC could have only been Watkins, or Smith, or Stephen White?

Hi George, for a long time I thought he could have been Harvey, but I have since come to support Watkins because of the Langdon story.

Pearson's Weekly August 6, 1912

[Fiver]

The correct Edward Watkins in 1971 was listed as a policeman (born in St Pancras) and is lodging at a coffee shop at 2 Great Charlotte Street.

At this time he had children, but for some reason, he is lodging elsewhere.

Thank you for catching my error.

[GBinOz]

Hi George, for a long time I thought he could have been Harvey, but I have since come to support Watkins because of the Langdon story.

Pearson's Weekly August 6, 1912

Hi Scott,

I've read your excellent dissertation titled The Butcher’s Row Suspect – Was He Jack the Ripper?:

https://www.casebook.org/dissertations/rip-butchersrow.html

I'm inclined to tie the Orange Market encounter with the PC who said he saw Eddowes in the vicinity of Aldgate High St., and the watchboy who saw a man and a woman leave Aldgate station, going towards Mitre-square and the man returning shortly afterward alone. Since this was the area in which Eddowes was arrested earlier in the night, one may speculate that she returned to meet someone with whom she had earlier kept company. If I were to engage in further speculation I would put forward the names of Jacob Levy and Frederick Deeming. There was a seamstress who saw a photo of Deeming after his arrest in Australia, and identified him, not as Frederick Deeming, but as Harry Lawson, one of Deeming's known aliases. She said he was in Whitechapel that night, knew Eddowes and had extensive knowledge of her injuries.

I can't see anything that would preclude the above couple also being the couple at Church Passage, and note the fact that Deeming had a ginger moustache and had at one time been a sailor. All just conjecture, of course.

Cheers, George

[GBinOz]

Hi Scott,

I found the reference to which I was initially referring. It was made by Arthur Griffiths referring to the Macnaghten Memorandum:

One was a Polish Jew, a known lunatic, who was at large in the district of Whitechapel at the time of the murder, and who, having afterwards developed homicidal tendencies, was confined to an asylum. This man was said to resemble the murderer by the one person who got a glimpse of him - the police-constable in Mitre Court.

It would appear that Kosminski may have resembled the person seen by Watkins in the Orange Market. However, that doesn't mesh with the Anderson identification story, unless of course Watkins was Jewish.

Cheers, George