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  • the underground system

    They sported the first underground railway system in the world back then a bit before the Ripper struck. Could the Ripper have used those tunnels to come and go? Were they guarded or occupied during the night? How accessible were they compared to the murder sites?

  • #2
    This has been suggested by someone Clark but I can’t recall who it was. Someone on here might remember though.
    Regards

    Herlock



    “All conspiracy theories are the product of the subconscious attempt of an ignorant yet creative mind to counteract the fear of the unknown with the tales of fantasy.” Abhijit Naskar.

    “Conspiracy theorists, she knew, were paranoid by definition, and usually with good reason - they were indeed being watched, largely because they were standing on an upturned bucket, haranguing the sheeple with their wingnut delusions.” Mick Herron.

    ”The most confused you will ever get is when you try to convince your heart and spirit of something your mind knows is a lie.” Shannon L. Alder.

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    • #3
      The London Underground back then was run by numerous different companies, much like the rail network of the time.

      Some good potted history on Wikipedia here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_London_Underground#The_first_underg round_railways_(1863–1905)

      Whitechapel Underground was opened in Oct 1884, served by the District Line. The map below is from an 1884 map showing this (red dotted line indicates the line extension was in progress when the map was printed). Whitechapel overground station had been in operation for East London Railway since 1876.

      Click image for larger version  Name:	disctrict-1884.jpg Views:	0 Size:	192.0 KB ID:	759219

      Polly Nichols was murdered behind Whitechapel Station in a street that ran parallel with the train tracks.

      Annie Chapman was murdered within a half-mile walk of Bishopsgate tube station.

      Elizabeth Stride was murdered equidistant between Aldgate and Whitechapel.

      Catherine Eddowes was murdered very close to Aldgate Station in Mitre Square.

      The closest station was Bishopsgate to Mary Jane Kelly's murder, less than 5 minutes.

      There is some geographical evidence to suggest proximity to the District Line stations. However, it must be asked that is it not highly inevitable since the murder zone was such a small geographical footprint?
      Last edited by erobitha; 05-27-2021, 10:24 PM.
      "When the legend becomes fact... print the legend"
      - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)

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      • #4
        Originally posted by erobitha View Post
        The London Underground back then was run by numerous different companies, much like the rail network of the time.

        Some good potted history on Wikipedia here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_London_Underground#The_first_underg round_railways_(1863–1905)

        Whitechapel Underground was opened in Oct 1884, served by the District Line. The map below is from an 1884 map showing this (red dotted line indicates the line extension was in progress when the map was printed). Whitechapel overground station had been in operation for East London Railway since 1876.

        Click image for larger version Name:	disctrict-1884.jpg Views:	0 Size:	192.0 KB ID:	759219

        Polly Nichols was murdered behind Whitechapel Station in a street that ran parallel with the train tracks.

        Annie Chapman was murdered within a half-mile walk of Bishopsgate tube station.

        Elizabeth Stride was murdered equidistant between Aldgate and Whitechapel.

        Catherine Eddowes was murdered very close to Aldgate Station in Mitre Square.

        The closest station was Bishopsgate to Mary Jane Kelly's murder, less than 5 minutes.

        There is some geographical evidence to suggest proximity to the District Line stations. However, it must be asked that is it not highly inevitable since the murder zone was such a small geographical footprint?
        so it's possible that the Ripper took advantage of the underground system of tunnels then. That would explain how he would seemingly just disappear.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by clark2710 View Post

          so it's possible that the Ripper took advantage of the underground system of tunnels then. That would explain how he would seemingly just disappear.
          The tunnels linked up the stations as I outlined but they were not exactly an easy escape route. The stations were locked during the night so it would require someone who could get multiple access.

          I just don’t think it would be the most convenient means of escape. I think it’s just pure coincidence of the geo footprint being fairly concentrated that explains the proximity to the stations to the murder sites.

          More likely an escape would be the sewer system. However, I also see many problems with that too.
          "When the legend becomes fact... print the legend"
          - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)

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          • #6
            I don't. We've got to embrace the sewers.

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            • #7
              Interview with a responsible police officer, Daily News 2 Oct;

              "Have you heard it suggested that the murderer may possibly have managed to elude the observation of the police and to get out of the immediate vicinity of his victim by means of the sewers?" "No," replied the officer, laying down his pen, and settling back in his chair with a look of interest, "you mean that he may have got down a manhole into the sewer and made off underground?" "Yes, that is the idea-not perhaps very feasible, but it may be not totally impossible." "Have you ever been down into the sewers?" was the officer's inquiry. "Ah! Then you know something of the difficulty which would be experienced in getting about underground. Besides, how would he get up again? He would require a key to get down, and he must shut down the grating and the iron flap after him, and even with a key I don't think he could get up again. If he could he would be more likely to be observed creeping up out of a sewer than by walking quietly off through the streets. No," concluded the officer, "I don't think there's much in that notion." The City police expressed pretty much the same opinion.


              Morning Advertiser 2 Oct;

              Great excitement was caused yesterday afternoon in Mitre-street by the descent of an exploring party of ten men through one of the man-holes into the sewers adjacent to the scene of the murder in Mitre-square. The search was made in the hope that some weapon, clothes, or clue would be found. After a long investigation, however, the party returned without having made any discovery.

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              • #8
                Climbing up and down a sewer is far less inconspicuous than quietly walking down a side alley under the cover of darkness, avoiding the police as he went.

                It really would not have been any more complicated than this...

                "When the legend becomes fact... print the legend"
                - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)

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                • #9
                  The Board of Works was in charge of the sewer system.

                  Here is an example of one of the sewer systems. The Ranelagh. GES032 - Ranelagh CSO (guerrillaexploring.com)

                  I did a little research on the sewer system in 2015. Here is that thread if you are interested. Stinky Jack - Jack The Ripper Forums - Ripperology For The 21st Century (jtrforums.com)

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                  • #10
                    so you all are basically saying, while it's possible, it's not very plausible?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by clark2710 View Post
                      so you all are basically saying, while it's possible, it's not very plausible?
                      Bingo!
                      (Copyright 2010-2021 by Abbingsworth Normalson)
                      Thems the Vagaries.....

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by erobitha View Post
                        Climbing up and down a sewer is far less inconspicuous than quietly walking down a side alley under the cover of darkness, avoiding the police as he went.

                        It really would not have been any more complicated than this...

                        A fitting visual metaphor for Ripperology. Sometimes, the ghosts chase us, sometimes we chase the ghosts. But ultimately, we're just going round in circles.

                        Alternatively, just chuck some bollox in about Pac-Man being representative of the struggle of the individual in the digital age. Flesh it out to 500 words and send it to The Guardian.
                        Thems the Vagaries.....

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Al Bundy's Eyes View Post

                          A fitting visual metaphor for Ripperology. Sometimes, the ghosts chase us, sometimes we chase the ghosts. But ultimately, we're just going round in circles.

                          Alternatively, just chuck some bollox in about Pac-Man being representative of the struggle of the individual in the digital age. Flesh it out to 500 words and send it to The Guardian.
                          It could probably be a book in itself!
                          "When the legend becomes fact... print the legend"
                          - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Al Bundy's Eyes View Post

                            A fitting visual metaphor for Ripperology. Sometimes, the ghosts chase us, sometimes we chase the ghosts. But ultimately, we're just going round in circles.

                            Alternatively, just chuck some bollox in about Pac-Man being representative of the struggle of the individual in the digital age. Flesh it out to 500 words and send it to The Guardian.
                            Wise words, Al!

                            You should be a reknowned philosopher!

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