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  • #31
    Regarding the SB Ledgers, am I missing something here?
    But didnt they only come to the attention of Ripper Historians after someone else doing research on something else had already been allowed to go through them with no problems?
    And wasnt it due to him that we found out about certain references to the JTR case were contained within.

    I remember reading somewhere twenty years or more back that it was believed SB had files regarding the case, and also not forgetting Littlejohn seemed to be involved somewhere at the time.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by spyglass View Post
      Regarding the SB Ledgers, am I missing something here?
      But didnt they only come to the attention of Ripper Historians after someone else doing research on something else had already been allowed to go through them with no problems?
      And wasnt it due to him that we found out about certain references to the JTR case were contained within.

      I remember reading somewhere twenty years or more back that it was believed SB had files regarding the case, and also not forgetting Littlejohn seemed to be involved somewhere at the time.
      Littlechild I assume you mean? Im sure his involvement was merely one as someone with a passing interest in the case. I’m sure with his experience handling fenian terrorism and Irish insurgency, his skills would not be relevant to JtR of the time. We are told special branch at the time was not how it is today. In no possible way could he have been the early prototype of an MI5 spymaster. Impossible.
      Last edited by erobitha; 03-27-2021, 07:53 AM.
      "When the legend becomes fact... print the legend"
      - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)

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      • #33
        Originally posted by erobitha View Post

        Littlechild I assume you mean? Im sure his involvement was merely one as someone with a passing interest in the case. I’m sure with his experience handling fenian terrorism and Irish insurgency, his skills would not be relevant to JtR of the time. We are told special branch at the time was not how it is today. In no possible way could he have been the early prototype of an MI5 spymaster. Impossible.
        Littlechild...yep that's the fella !

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        • #34
          A mass uprising is something the government of the day were massively concerned with, Bloody Sunday made the government nervous.

          1888 was the same year that special branch dropped ‘Irish’ from it’s the name and just became ‘Special Branch’. At the very least it suggests the department was looking at more than Irish issues. Or it was to help save money on office sign-painting? I’m sure there is a perfectly feasible admin issue for this.

          Littlechild had a network of informants from the Irish problem, but he may have acquired one or two more along the way that could have been interesting. We may not know what was said exactly but if there is a payment made to say, I don’t know, wild speculation, George Hutchinson around the time of Kelly’s murder would that have any use to know?

          Still, informants 130 years later need their identities protected in case of people holding really, really long grudges. Another case of we will never know.
          "When the legend becomes fact... print the legend"
          - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)

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          • #35
            Originally posted by spyglass View Post
            Hi,
            we now know about Police cover ups concerning Hillsborough, the Minors strike and now this week the Shrewsbury 24, which seems now also to involve the Government of that day right up to the PM Edward Heath.
            surely its unwise to suggest Conspiracy at a high level is not likely or even possible....that includes the JTR case.

            Regards.
            While coverups are real, conspiracy theories are based on the idea that most large organizations are run by competent people with clear and unified goals. Anyone who has dealt with bureaucracy knows better.


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            • #36
              Originally posted by Astatine211 View Post
              Well the police did refuse to release the ledgers a few years ago, spending millions of tax payer money to stop Trevor Marriott and everyone on here being able to see what was in them. These are the same ledgers which supposedly mention Winston Churchills father and were the origins of the royal conspiracy.

              They even got a very senior officer to anonymously testify on a supposed reason why the ledgers shouldn't be released in the following high court trial. Then a year later the ledgers get incinerated and the fraction Trevor Marriott was given access to during the trial was heavily redacted.

              In my opinion the whole operation to keep the ledgers from seeing the light of day then subsequently destroying them for no reason is a police cover up.

              One line of thought which could explain the reason behind this is that one of the victims was actually a police informant. There was discussion about this being the case for Catherine Eddowes and if she was a police informant it might stop people even today from being recruited out of fear (at the high court trial the police said hindering the recruitment of informants was the reason the ledgers couldn't be released).

              Alternatively the ledgers were kept secret and destroyed in order to protect someone, maybe someone with links to the royal family, maybe someone with links the police force.

              In the end we'll never know because millions of pounds were spent keeping the ledgers secret and then they were destroyed. What could've been the missing key to the entire case gone up in smoke, literally.

              Aside from the ledgers, IMO if there was a police cover up at the time it would most likely be due to two potential suspects. Thomas Cutbush or James Kelly. Thomas Hayne Cutbush was the nephew of a high ranking police superintendent and the famous Macnaghten Memoranda was written in response to a newspaper expose on THC. AP Wolf wrote a brilliant book on THC, called Jack the Myth which was available to read online on casebook. The book has a few chapters dedicated to a supposed police cover-up. The link now takes you to an error but I used wayback machine to find an archived version and have put the link which takes you to the chapter focusing most on possible police cover ups. Likewise James Kelly could've been covered up to avoid police embarrassment due to the fact he successfully escaped Broadmoor and evaded police capture many times.

              This link takes you to the chapter which discusses a potential police cover up linked to Thomas Hayne Cutbush regardless of whether he was Jack the Ripper:
              https://web.archive.org/web/20100620...fulltext9.html

              As for James Kelly, James Tully's book The Secret of Prisoner 1167 discuss a potential police cover up in regards to him.
              ​​​​​​
              Perhaps Jack was the research partner of one of the Queen's doctors.

              If he was a known homosexual and/or paedophile .....

              My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Fiver View Post

                While coverups are real, conspiracy theories are based on the idea that most large organizations are run by competent people with clear and unified goals. Anyone who has dealt with bureaucracy knows better.

                Luna Park fire: What happens when the baddies have the key to Sydney
                My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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                • #38
                  There is a fascniating documentary from Adam Curtis I watched recently (which is also available on YouTube) which goes to the heart of why conspiracy theories take shape, and why people respond to them psychologically. Each episode is over an hour long each, but if like me you are inetrested in psychology and sociology, then you may find it interesting too. As I said before, cover-ups are something entirely different.

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Can%27...ead_(TV_series)
                  "When the legend becomes fact... print the legend"
                  - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)

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