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PC Holland/Hollins?

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  • PC Holland/Hollins?

    At the inquest into Catherine Eddowes' murder it's noted that Dr Sequeria was brought to the scene by a PC that PC Watkins names as Holland but PC Harvey identifies him as Hollins. This PC wasn't apparently called to give evidence and Dr Sequeria himself doesn't seem to have given any mention of the PC in regard to him bringing him to the scene.

    So who was PC Holland/Hollins? Why the confusion in his name at the inquest? Why no appearance at the inquest? Would he have been with PC Harvey for the same beat or would they have happened to converge shortly before George Morris approached them?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Curious Cat View Post
    At the inquest into Catherine Eddowes' murder it's noted that Dr Sequeria was brought to the scene by a PC that PC Watkins names as Holland but PC Harvey identifies him as Hollins. This PC wasn't apparently called to give evidence and Dr Sequeria himself doesn't seem to have given any mention of the PC in regard to him bringing him to the scene.

    So who was PC Holland/Hollins? Why the confusion in his name at the inquest? Why no appearance at the inquest? Would he have been with PC Harvey for the same beat or would they have happened to converge shortly before George Morris approached them?
    Harvey calls him "Holland".


    Watchman Morris states he blew his whistle, "I saw no suspicious person. About then 2 constables came up. They asked me what was the matter."

    Harvey states: "I heard a whistle blown and and saw the witness Morris with a lamp [...] I saw a Constable on the other side of the street. I said come with me. We went to Mitre Square and saw Watkins there and the deceased. Constable Holland who followed me went for Dr Sequiera."

    Holland probably wasn't called because he had nothing to add. No reason calling him if he just repeats what the others say.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Kattrup View Post

      Harvey calls him "Holland".


      Watchman Morris states he blew his whistle, "I saw no suspicious person. About then 2 constables came up. They asked me what was the matter."

      Harvey states: "I heard a whistle blown and and saw the witness Morris with a lamp [...] I saw a Constable on the other side of the street. I said come with me. We went to Mitre Square and saw Watkins there and the deceased. Constable Holland who followed me went for Dr Sequiera."

      Holland probably wasn't called because he had nothing to add. No reason calling him if he just repeats what the others say.
      That's not how it goes here...

      https://www.casebook.org/official_do...t_eddowes.html


      So what was PC Holland/Hollins' beat to have heard Morris's whistle and reach Mitre Street at the same time as PC Harvey? If his beat was as close to the scene as both Harvey and Watkins but separate it seems odd not to ask him if he had seen anything/anyone suspicious in the area.

      I've scanned the forum but can't seem to see any mention of him at all, hence the thread.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Curious

        I go by the Sourcebook which provides transcripts of the inquest documents. In this case they are more authoritative than the papers’ reports.

        I’m sure there are some variations in newspapers, however Holland/ Hollins is no great divergence. His name was Holland, however, there are a few PCs named Holland, one candidate would be William Holland C288 I think (from memory).
        I don’t know his beat but clearly it was adjacent or close to Harvey’s.

        Comment


        • #5
          The Berkshire Chronicle 6th October 1888 gives Holland the number 814. Eddleston calls him James Thomas Holland, 814. This would suggest constable James T Holland of 42 Beech St, St Giles Cripplegate in the 91 census. Age 48, widower, born Hampshire.

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          • #6
            In 1881 he was with his wife and family at 22 Jewin Crescent, 3 doors away from Daniel Halse.

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            • #7
              Thank you Robert

              Comment


              • #8
                The inquest coroner would call him only if he had something of significance to add, as has been suggested.

                To do this the coroners Officer would have obtained Holland’s report for the corners perusal. If the coroner sees nothing of worth in that report, he wouldn’t call PC Holland.

                Monty

                https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

                Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

                Comment


                • #9
                  Actually it's City PC Frederick Holland 814. See City Beat: City PC Frederick Holland, Ripperologist #109.

                  Wolf.

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                  • #10
                    Thank you for the information, Wolf

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                    • #11
                      Yes, thank you Wolf.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Wolf Vanderlinden View Post
                        Actually it's City PC Frederick Holland 814. See City Beat: City PC Frederick Holland, Ripperologist #109.

                        Wolf.
                        Here is the article.

                        http://www.rippercast.com/mp3/City%2...0Rip%20109.pdf

                        JM

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thank you for the responses.

                          From knowing nothing of PC Holland I now seem to know most of the man's life story. However, I'm also faced with conflicting information so still need a bit more help.

                          I'm going by the inquest transcript on this site and the Rippercast pdf of PC Holland linked to above.


                          George Morris - the night watchman - has gone down Mitre Street towards Aldgate, blowing his whistle and holding his lamp. When at the corner of Mitre Street and Aldgate High Street two policemen - Harvey and Holland - approached and asked him what was the matter. He told them together and both went to Mitre Square, with Morris following. In the Rippercast article it suggests Harvey approached Morris first and then called Holland to come over from the south side of Aldgate High Street, with Morris and Harvey then informing him of what had happened.

                          While Harvey only speaks of himself approaching Morris and asking what had happened he makes no mention of calling Holland over to join him. He first talks of Holland in terms of going to Mitre Square together. Morris also talks Harvey and Holland as a pair, not separately. They approached him. They asked what had happened. He told them. He makes no suggestion of telling Harvey first and then them together telling Holland.

                          Is there another source where Morris talks about Harvey and Holland approaching him separately? Also, is there any way of knowing what Holland's beat was and therefore which direction he was walking along Aldgate High Street?


                          Harvey says he was walking back towards Duke Street when he heard Morris' whistle. This means he would have had to turn back to go towards Morris rather than already going in that direction. But on Rippercast he's reported to have said he'd just gone into Aldgate, meaning he would have just rounded the corner onto Aldgate High Street from Duke Street. Could it be that Holland reached the same point along the street as Harvey as they both went towards the whistling and lamp holding Morris rather than him being called over?


                          As an aside, if Harvey was reaching the corner of Duke Street and Aldgate High Street as Morris made his way down Mitre Street, when would Harvey have been in Church Passage? If he had already walked along Aldgate High Street and was returning to Duke Street when Morris came to his attention, when would he have been at Church Passage before then?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            What a cracking little thread Curious Cat, thanks for starting it.

                            I'm always interested to hear about other Bobby's "involved" in the Ripper case who have a connection to the case, but are not famously involved.

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