Tamworth Herald 26th July 1890

[Chris]

Trevor Marriott

Again, it's difficult to understand quite what you're suggesting. (Some punctuation might help.)

Obviously when people who had committed crimes were found to be insane, they would be committed to an asylum rather than being tried. But you seem to be suggesting that when suspects were not found to be insane, and when the police didn't have enough evidence to secure a conviction, they would have them certified insane and locked up instead.

As I said, perhaps you can give us some evidence that this happened, but it sounds like an unfeasibly risky way of proceeding to me. For example, talking of asylum records, what would the asylum be told in these cases - "The man may not appear to be insane, but please have a word with CID before discharging him" ?

[Trevor Marriott]

It's rather difficult to make sense of this, but I don't really think lunatic asylums were intended to provide a means of the police locking up people whom they suspected of having committed crimes, but against whom they lacked evidence. Perhaps you can cite an occasion on which that happened, but I think the more usual way around the problem would be for the police to manufacture some evidence and then proceed via the criminal courts.

Ways and means Act. No likelihood of criminal proceedings no help from a court either what are they to do let him run free.

After all take a look at the minor things that got him certified later on. I would expect murder suspect to have been a big factor in making some decisions way back then and certainly something written on an asylum record, speaking of which I am so glad that has survived at least we can stop the old chestnut being used that "Well we don't know what was in the files because they are missing" which we have had to endure over the years.

I have been involved in cases where a person suffering from a mental illness has committed a crime and been arrested and then not charged but simply certified under the mental health act.

[Chris]

Well if the ID did take place why would the police want to hush it up. They knew the couldn't bring him to trial due to lack of evidence. What mileage was to be had by letting him carry on as normal.

They could have taken him back to the asylum got him certified locked away. Then made a public announcement the killers identity is known and he can kill nor more but we cannot bring him to trial because he is mad.

It's rather difficult to make sense of this, but I don't really think lunatic asylums were intended to provide a means of the police locking up people whom they suspected of having committed crimes, but against whom they lacked evidence. Perhaps you can cite an occasion on which that happened, but I think the more usual way around the problem would be for the police to manufacture some evidence and then proceed via the criminal courts.

[Robert]

I checked the Ancestry UK incoming lists for port of departure Halifax and date 1890. The records for this seem to start at 1891.

[Trevor Marriott]

You are incorrect.

RH

Edit: As to your first point, I have responded to this idea already about 100 times. As to your second point... if the police were trying to keep this hush-hush, as I assume they were, they would have made sure it didn't end up in his file.

I removed the non-nice stuff.....

Well if the ID did take place why would the police want to hush it up. They knew the couldn't bring him to trial due to lack of evidence. What mileage was to be had by letting him carry on as normal.

They could have taken him back to the asylum got him certified locked away. Then made a public announcement the killers identity is known and he can kill nor more but we cannot bring him to trial because he is mad.

That way they would have got the public back on their side and regained their credibility

Abberline in 1903 even makes this remark "Besides, the authorities would have been only too glad to make an end of such a mystery, if only for their own credit."

The simple fact is that they didn't even consider that because Aaron Kosminski was never a prime suspect then and never one 125 years later

[Cogidubnus]

We are talking about a personal letter from a woman to her friends back home... it was not an official dispatch. Besides, if I understand correctly... telegrams were expensive and charged by the word I think.

Hi Rob

No I was wondering (not very clearly) whether the rumours, if they had been that serious, wouldn't have been picked up by a Press Agency and telegraphed as part of a news feed...but in this case presumably not

Be interesting to see the date on that Nova Scotia paper if/when it surfaces

All the best

Dave

[Robert]

The article starts "Halifax, N.S., July 23" if anyone wants to look for the Halifax newspaper.

[Robert]

The News and Observer (Raleigh, NC) July 27th says the lady says that she learned the facts accidentally "through her acqaintance with the family she is visiting."

[Trevor Marriott]

You are incorrect as always, but there is no point my trying to explain it to you.

RH

Well try I ! lets see where this will go as far as a sensible debate is concerned ?

[robhouse]

So if they had carried out the ID as you say and knew they had JTR in their grasp they are hardly likely to just let him go on his merry way are they.

Besides if it had happened before he was released it would have been recorded on his asylum file.

You are incorrect.

RH

Edit: As to your first point, I have responded to this idea already about 100 times. As to your second point... if the police were trying to keep this hush-hush, as I assume they were, they would have made sure it didn't end up in his file.

I removed the non-nice stuff.....

[robhouse]

Hello Rob

Wouldn't something as big as that be transmitted telegraphically?

All the best

Dave

We are talking about a personal letter from a woman to her friends back home... it was not an official dispatch. Besides, if I understand correctly... telegrams were expensive and charged by the word I think.

RH

[Trevor Marriott]

It is also interesting in view of the timeline:

• Kozminski was admitted on July 12, 1890
• It is entirely plausible (if not likely) that the identification took place on the following day or the day after... perhaps the most likely date is July 14 or thereabouts. Kozminski was then released
• If word leaked somehow that Jack the Ripper had been "arrested", then word would have started to spread around this time... ie. July 15 or so.
• In the 1890s, it took an average of 6 days for a steamer to cross the atlantic.
• If a woman heard the rumor from a "distinguished London official" around July 15 or 16 and sent a letter home, it would likely arrive in Halifax around July 21-22.
• The first reports of the letter sent by a Halifax lady must have appeared prior to July 24 (in a Halifax paper), probably by 1 day. ie. around or on July 23.

Convincing?

RH

So if they had carried out the ID as you say and knew they had JTR in their grasp they are hardly likely to just let him go on his merry way are they.

Besides if it had happened before he was released it would have been recorded on his asylum file.

[Cogidubnus]

Hello Rob

Wouldn't something as big as that be transmitted telegraphically?

All the best

Dave

[robhouse]

It is also interesting in view of the timeline:

• Kozminski was admitted on July 12, 1890
• It is entirely plausible (if not likely) that the identification took place on the following day or the day after... perhaps the most likely date is July 14 or thereabouts. Kozminski was then released
• If word leaked somehow that Jack the Ripper had been "arrested", then word would have started to spread around this time... ie. July 15 or so.
• In the 1890s, it took an average of 6 days for a steamer to cross the atlantic.
• If a woman heard the rumor from a "distinguished London official" around July 15 or 16 and sent a letter home, it would likely arrive in Halifax around July 21-22.
• The first reports of the letter sent by a Halifax lady must have appeared prior to July 24 (in a Halifax paper), probably by 1 day. ie. around or on July 23.

Convincing?

RH

[robhouse]

Also reported in various other US papers as early as July 24... so the report pre-dated July 25, and probably had the original source in England somewhere, and or Halifax, Nova Scotia... via a Halifax lady who visited a "distinguished London official"...


The Fort Wayne Weekly Sentinel (Indiana, USA)

JACK THE RIPPER!
Is a Medical Student and is Under Arrest in London - A Chain of Evidence Woven About Him
Halifax, July 24.
A Halifax lady, at present visiting a distinguished London official, writes to friends here that Jack the Ripper is under arrest in that city and has been for some time. The Ripper, she says, is a medical student and his arrest was made on the strength of information given by his sister. The authorities have kept the matter the strictest secret in order to work up a case against the man. The chain of evidence is very complete. This information, though startling, is vouched for by the writer of the letter, who accidentally came into possession of the facts.