Whitechapel CID

[Hdivision]

I am currently researching a chap who was a Policeman on H Division for his whole career. He is listed at the Commercial Street Station on the 1891 census, but soon after that he became a Detective (Shown as a Detective at The Old Bailey in 1896), married and moved into a private house.
Does anyone know, did each of the four H Division stations have their own CID offices, or would the CID all be at one station? Any information on the structure of H Division CID between 1887 and 1912 (his service) would be very much appreciated. Thanks.

[ChrisGeorge]

I am currently researching a chap who was a Policeman on H Division for his whole career. He is listed at the Commercial Street Station on the 1891 census, but soon after that he became a Detective (Shown as a Detective at The Old Bailey in 1896), married and moved into a private house.
Does anyone know, did each of the four H Division stations have their own CID offices, or would the CID all be at one station? Any information on the structure of H Division CID between 1887 and 1912 (his service) would be very much appreciated. Thanks.

Hi there

If any particular Met division had more than one police station, I would doubt if there were CID working out of each police station. I would think that the CID officers would work out of just one police station per division as you assume.

Chris

[Wickerman]

I might regret offering this, but I assumed C.I.D. was run from Scotland Yard. This was known as their Central Office. Each Metropolitan division had it's own divisional C.I.D. office, like in the case of H div. at Commercial St.

The office at Commercial St. Station was only a branch office headed by Abberline. This office supervised all the H Division region.

Regards, Jon S.

[Hdivision]

Thanks for your replies, sorry for the late recognition I have been ill and not using the computer much.
Thanks again.

[PC Roadnight]

I might regret offering this, but I assumed C.I.D. was run from Scotland Yard. This was known as their Central Office. Each Metropolitan division had it's own divisional C.I.D. office, like in the case of H div. at Commercial St.

The office at Commercial St. Station was only a branch office headed by Abberline. This office supervised all the H Division region.

Regards, Jon S.

The Yard did indeed act as the Central Office, especially initially for Fingerprint Dept, and the investigation of serious crime (forgery, murder, etc) and acted both nationally and internationally for other forces, and of course it still does. But in 1869 CID officers were attached to the 21 divisions of the Met working under the Divisional Superintendents. Even so by 1888 there were only about 300 detectives out of a force of some 14,000.

Commercial Street was a Divisional Station and divisions were further divided into sub-divisional and then to (the smallest) sectional stations. It was the responsibility of CID officers to get to know their 'Manor', and of course uniform officers were often employed (in plain clothes) as 'aides to CID' anyway. Particularly for street gambling and prostitution investigations. CID officers were selected mostly for being good 'thief takers' and 'aiding' was for many (myself included) the route into the Yard.

Certainly by 1914 all stations had their own CID office but it should not be assumed that earlier investigations were by CID officers detached from or ignorant of their areas.
Peter

[Stewart P Evans]

Cid 1888

From September 1888 the Criminal Investigation Department was under the control of Dr. Robert Anderson who was the Assistant Commissioner (Crime) and his immediate subordinate was Chief Constable Adolphus Williamson, then Superintendent John Shore after which there were five Chief Inspectors and several Inspectors. All these were based at Central Office, Scotland Yard.

However, each Divisional station had its own Criminal Investigation Department headed by a Local (Detective) Inspector, in the case of H or Whitechapel Division this was Inspector Edmund Reid. These Local Inspectors, obviously, were under the senior officers based at the Yard. The Divisional Headquarters of H Division was Leman Street, not Commercial Street, Police Station. Reid had several detective sergeants and even more detective constables working under his supervision.

Of a total force of around three hundred men, thirty were first-class inspectors and seven were second-class inspectors.

[PC Roadnight]

Yes, sorry Stewart, Commercial Street was a sub-divisional station. I should have known that as I was on attachment to Leman Street for a year!

The OPs query about the PC / Detective though probably means that as a single man he was living in the Commercial Road Section House accommodation and moved out after marriage. PCs usually, though not always, worked the division where their section house was located to help maintain a reserve of available manpower in case of emergencies, but postings to CID could often affect this.
Peter

[Hdivision]

Thank you to Stewart and Peter for your replies, that does confirm some things I was after.
So we think my man DC Charley Smith would have been working out of Leman Street during his Whitechapel CID career (1895-1912)?

Thanks, Jon

[PC Roadnight]

I think that's most likely Jon. In your original post you mentioned the Old Bailey, was he appearing in court to give evidence? If so case records should show his rank and station. I think by 1910/12 sub-divisional and most sectional (certainly Camberwell in SE London I know) had their own CID Offices.
Peter

[Hdivision]

He gave evidence at The Old Bailey a staggering 22 times in his career, the majority of which are recorded as 'Detective, H Division'.

Jon

[mklhawley]

Hi HDivision,

You probably already know this, but Detective Inspector Chandler headed the Commercial Street Station while Reid headed the Leman Street Station (took over Abberline's old position one year prior) during the murders. Also at Commercial Street were Detective Sergeants Thick & Leach and Detective Constable Walter Dew. Warren assigned Chief Inspector Swanson to the Whitechapel murder investigation out of Scotland Yard, while Inspector Abberline was assigned at the location of the murders (H Division) with the assistance of Inspectors Moore and Andrews. I bet the man you are researching was in personal contact with all of these guys.

Mike

[Tresschen]

Is it sure that Chandler was head of the Commercial Street police station? Where did you find that information? I would like to know as I am writing on something in which Inspector Chandler has a rather major role.

[Wickerman]

I'm glad someone raised the issue of who was in charge of the individual stations.
Who ran the stations and what was their title?

Simon Wood created a list of H Division personnel..

http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/h-division-personnel.html

But there were four station houses
- Leman St. (HQ)
- Commercial St.
- King David Lane.
- Arbour Square.

Yet Simon does not list "4" suitably titled officers who's duty it would have been to run these stations.

And, across all the surviving paperwork (regarding Commercial St. & Leman St.), where do we see the names, or documents signed, by any of these individuals?
Ellisdon seems to have been the highest ranked officer who signed anything at Commercial St. (under Arnold).

Was a station house run by an Inspector?
Are they to be found among Simon's list of eleven 1st class Inspectors?
11 1st class Inspectors

I don't expect we will ever know who ran Arbour Sq. or King David Lane but I would have thought it would be possible to identify who ran both Leman St. and Commercial St.

Does anyone know?

Thanks in advance.
Jon S.

[Monty]

Deleted - incomplete post

[Monty]

I'm glad someone raised the issue of who was in charge of the individual stations.
Who ran the stations and what was their title?

Simon Wood created a list of H Division personnel..

http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/h-division-personnel.html

But there were four station houses
- Leman St. (HQ)
- Commercial St.
- King David Lane.
- Arbour Square.

Yet Simon does not list "4" suitably titled officers who's duty it would have been to run these stations.

And, across all the surviving paperwork (regarding Commercial St. & Leman St.), where do we see the names, or documents signed, by any of these individuals?
Ellisdon seems to have been the highest ranked officer who signed anything at Commercial St. (under Arnold).

Was a station house run by an Inspector?
Are they to be found among Simon's list of eleven 1st class Inspectors?
11 1st class Inspectors

I don't expect we will ever know who ran Arbour Sq. or King David Lane but I would have thought it would be possible to identify who ran both Leman St. and Commercial St.

Does anyone know?

Thanks in advance.
Jon S.

Hi Jon,

Just a basic break down for those reading who may not be aware -

The Metropolitan Police Force is broken down into Divisions, each Division is given its own letter ID, with Whitechapel holding H. The Divisions are ran by a Superintendent, in Whitechapels case, John Arnold. He was assisted by Divisional Chief Inspectors West and Ellisdon (which is why you see Ellisdons signature Jon)

Within these Divisions stood the Stations. These were ran by the Inspectors who all reported to the Divisional Chief Inspector and/or the Superintendent.

Now attached to these Stations were Section Houses. These were living quarters for the Policemen, usually the single ones (married man were given their own quarters dotted around the area). Due to space issues, some Section Houses stood alone (there is one on the Mile End Road should you be passing) and these were ran by a Section Sergeant.

The idea behind Section houses was two fold. One it drew men together. Two is was a handy way of mustering men for an emergency situation, saved on sending Runners all over the area.

Now back to your question Jon,

Im working from memory here (Ive duties to perform elsewhere as Morris would say, cannot verify), so willing to be corrected but at -

Leman St had Divisional Chief Inspector John West assisted by Inspector Charles Pinhorn

Commercial St had Divisional Chief Inspector Ernest Ellisdon assisted by Inspector Walter Beck

I cannot recall who was at King David Lane and Arbour Square (which was only purchased by the Met 27 days before Nichols murder), names do not jump into my head. I will look at it later if thats ok, unless someone else is willing to step in.

Cheers
Monty