was jack that quite/or was it anti police

[dixon9]

Tbh i didn't know where to post this thought but here goes.
This has bugged me for the few years i have been looking into the JtR mystery,was jack really that quite while committing these acts or was it a case of people who may have heard something just not trusting/wanting to go to the police?

Ok we have Albert Cadosch hear the word No and a 'fall' against the fence,but really apart from that nothing.The Liz Stride 'row' before her death i am dismissing(maybe foolhardy to do so) as i feel she met her death from a different hand shortly after.

Just wondered wether someone did see/hear something else while Jack was in the act of committing the murders,but as i fear they just wasn't into 'grassing' to the police for a better phrase.
Thanks for any help

Dixon9
still learning

[The Good Michael]

I lived in Korea for 3 years in a building with other teachers. Several nights a week, drunken students would get into arguments into the wee hours, and other students would drive around with stereos blasting, also in the evening. Other Koreans ignored all this noise. The same thing happens in China, VietNam, Laos... most of Asia except for Japan, and locals ignore it and sleep through it all. So many people crowded together and yet a person can unconciously create a wall around them so that they might not be annoyed. I can't do that, but maybe East Enders got used to the noises in a crowded, dirty area, and paid no mind.

Mike

[YankeeSergeant]

Quiet

[Dix and Michael, I suspect it was a bit of everything you mentioned. Certainly I don't believe that "Saucy Jack" was quite the criminal mastermind but I believe he was lucky and that people ignored any noise made because tey didn't want to get involved. Something we know all too weel in today's society (The Kitty Foyle(?) case comes to mind. Also many of the citizens in Whitechapel/Spitalfields made their living as best they could which sometimes ment extralegally. I find your theory quite plausible.

[Scorpio]

Doubtless JtR was seen many more times than were ever recorded. There is a quite understandable tendency for witnesses to 'not want to get involved' or to consider witnessed events 'none of my business'. It is probably motivated by anxiety/fear.

[dixon9]

thanks for your thoughts and help


Dixon9
still learning

[Bob Hinton]

When I saw this post I was all agog waiting for the other shoe to drop – ‘Was Jack quite … ‘What?’ I wondered, then I realised the post should have said “Was Jack that quiet?”.

It’s a pretty pointless question, quiet in relation to what? A train going by, a street-seller calling out their wares, an atomic explosion?

How much noise does Dixon think is created in strangling someone? If you do it right – not very much!

[dixon9]

i apologise for asking such a pointless question,just i thought with all those people roaming the streets someone might have heard something else,i thank you for putting me straight though.

Dixon9
still learning(but very slowly)

[Adam Went]

Hi Dixon,

Welcome, first of all - there are no pointless questions when you're learning and you shouldn't be afraid to ask.

I think Michael has answered the question pretty well. One of Mary Kelly's neighbours stated that screams in the night were by no means uncommon, and in the violence of the East End, particularly Dorset Street, that certainly makes sense. If you live in such an environment for long enough, though you might hear something, sub-consciously you just shut off from it.

Jack himself certainly must have been quiet though and knew how, where and when to evade potential witnesses or captors....

Cheers,
Adam.

[Hunter]

Dixon,

That was a good question and nothing could illustrate the perplexity of it like the night of the double murder. Whether it was one murderer or two... it doesn't matter... both were high risk locations that could have gotten the person who did each, caught.

Mitre Square was a virtual concert hall for sound; routinely patroled and with people all around. Actually, the City Police thought they were ready for him if he dared to venture into their territory... didn't work. Dutfield's Yard was very narrow with tenaments and a kitchen door that was partly open with two women just inside. Yet, the killer in both cases got away.

I can't think of any series of murders where extraordinary chances like these were taken and the murderer wasn't eventually caught.

Whoever murdered these women was in a different world that we can't even contemplate. Fantasy had quelled the natural urge for caution. The propensity of the victims themselves lessened the risk to some degree... but the fantasy had to be played out regardless of the risk. And once the risk was minimized - by either accident or design - the full fury of that fantasy was played out in Miller's Court.

[dixon9]

thank you Adam and Hunter

Dixon9
still learning

[harry]

Dixon,
I agree that quite a lot was seen and heard,but not recorded.Like all murders,rumours abound,names are bandied about,but they remain rumours.and among those rumours could have been information that could have altered the outcome.

[YankeeSergeant]

Quiet

Dixon,
I agree that quite a lot was seen and heard,but not recorded.Like all murders,rumours abound,names are bandied about,but they remain rumours.and among those rumours could have been information that could have altered the outcome.

Very true. In my post above the name of the victim was Kitty Genovese who was assaulted and murdered in New York in the early 1950s. She was heard but in the archtypical instance no-one went to her aid and very few even bothered to call the poice. It is quite possible Miss Genovese would have been saved with quick and resolute action but such was not forthcoming. So was Jack that quiet? probably not. The people around him apparently were though.

[Steven Russell]

Silent tread

Not sure about how much noise Jack would have made but it seems that quietness when walking was considered suspicious or even sinister by the Victorians. Blotchy man as described by Mary Ann Cox, Leather Apron, and Bellsmith (rubber-soled galoshes) were all remarked upon as having this characteristic which seems to have been considered unusual.

I don't know how this helps the discussion exactly but thought it worth mentioning.

Best wishes,
Steve.