Missing Memorandum 2

[corey123]

Stewart,

Perhaps some day I will be able to visit England. Next year I start college and I work, also currently I am in school so that takes up a good chunk of my time.

Also, as a 17 year old, even an 18 year old, the funds needed are to far and many for me to gain. The only chance I could go to England soon is if I won the lottery, and then traveled this summer before the Fall term next year.

I have a faint hope of visiting London before it looks unreconizable to the photographs that I see. I wish to also thank John Bennet and alll who take these photos, for if not, I wouldn't have a clue what London even looked like.

I'll consider myself lucky.

I know if they have another Ripper Conference in Tennessee, there is no way I will miss it. Well at least part of it perhaps. Defently not missing it if they choose Koxville again, but this is unlikely.

Corey

[mariab]

John Bennett wrote:
Maria -
If the Aberconway family have no problem with the document being made public, then why go to the A-Z authors? Surely the most logical and courteous way is via the family themselves?
Apparently (at least this is what Trevor Marriott reported last week) the Aberconway family doesn't have the document anymore and have no knowledge of its current wherebouts. I'm not even sure if this is a fact. Perhaps they were too busy to really look. At any rate, an upload of the Aberconway version at the JTRForums would be of great benefit to Ripperology.

[Stewart P Evans]

Ripper Sites

Hello Stewart,
Well, honestly I have never been. I currently live in Knoxville Tennessee. I got that short story from Washington Irving, who I think has written some of the most entertaining works of literature yet to be seen. Of course, many have given them a run for there money, but in the realm of short story, he is king.
Of course, again only my opinion.
Good Evening.

You should come over and try it - nice place. You could take in some Ripper sites too, I could show you round what's left of them.

[corey123]

Hello Phil,

Even so, I would think that if there were any reason that they would not want to produce the document, that would be an expected response. Just a thought.

I wouldn't have a clue to there location if not with the Aberconway family. Surely not with the A-Z team, right?

[Phil Carter]

Hello Corey,

The Aberconway family were contacted, by Trevor Marriot, recently. They apparently do not know where the document is.

best wishes

Phil

[Stewart P Evans]

Contacts

I appreciate hearing the straight dope from the horse's mouth (no offense, just American lingo). I didn't mean to suggest you or Don had such contacts, but I can tell you from personal knowledge they do exist. All of which points up the fact that Trevor Marriott obviously has no such contacts, no clout, no one to run interference for him. Here, of all places, he and anyone else searching for productive answers should be able to feel they are among friends with a common purpose. So he got out of line, insulted someone, ruffled some feathers. So what? No harm has been done, except to him. Most of the posters here do little more than trade theories; a few actually contribute - census records, public documents, great photographs, great drawings. Some, like Trevor, are out there actually digging for those little nuggets of gold that the rest of us so eagerly hunger for. Suspending him, I believe, may send the wrong message and may discourage aggressive investigation in the future.

John, I know such contacts used to exist for some if they were in the right force or position. It was also mainly a senior officer thing I believe. It is unlikely that anyone today exercises such advantages in this field. Trevor knows I support his sterling efforts to get at the Special Branch files, though I fear he will be unsuccessful. They were closed in perpetuity and do not even go to the National Archives. Don and I tried and failed to get a look at them.

[corey123]

Hello John,

No worries

[corey123]

Hello Stewart,

Well, honestly I have never been. I currently live in Knoxville Tennessee. I got that short story from Washington Irving, who I think has written some of the most entertaining works of literature yet to be seen. Of course, many have given them a run for there money, but in the realm of short story, he is king.

Of course, again only my opinion.

Good Evening.

[Dr. John Watson]

Here we go again.

No, I don't know what that means. 'The Department'? I was a member of the Suffolk Constabulary and had nothing at all to do with the Metropolitan Police force. Don Rumbelow was a member of the City of London Police and not the Metropolitan Police. Need I go on. I have been retired for 13 years now, and Don even longer.

These are odd ideas. No one owes me any favours in the Metropolitan Police Force and all the Ripper documentation is at the National Archives at Kew anyway, available to any member of the public. The Metropolitan Police hold no relevant documents whatsoever.

THe 'Aberconway version' is owned by the Aberconway family and ultimately any copyright would be theirs. No one has produced it for me. A colleague did obtain a photocopy some 23 years ago.

What I have 'no problem obtaining a copy' of is my business and no one else's. I have not seen the original of the Davies report, but as it is a privately owned document I have no right to see it anyway.

At the time the Suspects file went missing, before 1983, the public had access to it and had had such access since 1965. Simon himself gave an instance of members of the public accessing the files, and actually borrowing them, in 1965.

The police have no such files now, and haven't since 1965, so it would be difficult to borrow them from the police. They went to the Public Record Office in 1965.

N.B. I have answered these questions as a courtesy, not because I have to. I'd hate to think that people thought that I evaded questions.

I appreciate hearing the straight dope from the horse's mouth (no offense, just American lingo). I didn't mean to suggest you or Don had such contacts, but I can tell you from personal knowledge they do exist. All of which points up the fact that Trevor Marriott obviously has no such contacts, no clout, no one to run interference for him. Here, of all places, he and anyone else searching for productive answers should be able to feel they are among friends with a common purpose. So he got out of line, insulted someone, ruffled some feathers. So what? No harm has been done, except to him. Most of the posters here do little more than trade theories; a few actually contribute - census records, public documents, great photographs, great drawings. Some, like Trevor, are out there actually digging for those little nuggets of gold that the rest of us so eagerly hunger for. Suspending him, I believe, may send the wrong message and may discourage aggressive investigation in the future.

[John Bennett]

Please recall that the Aberconway family declared to Trevor Marriott recently that they have NO problem whatsoever with the Aberconway version being made public. I still think it worthwhile that someone (perhaps Chris Phillips or Phil Carter, as they've already expressed active interest?) approaches the A-Z people about this.

Maria -

If the Aberconway family have no problem with the document being made public, then why go to the A-Z authors? Surely the most logical and courteous way is via the family themselves?

This thread appears to be developing into a debate about 'research ethics', which would probably make a fascinating thread of its own.

PS Ouch!! Corey's post beat me to it!

[Stewart P Evans]

Well Said

Stewart,
I try.
I enjoy this research. I enjoy discussing it. I enjoy the people who study along side me. I have made countless friends, and learned, what has seemed to be, more than I ever have.
I wish to see this in the future, headed in a good path. I believe we all take this website for granted. I believe, the work Stephen Ryder and the others have done shouldn't be destroyed out of the demand for knowledge.
Perhaps other routes shall, at least, be attempted.

Well said Corey, Stratford-on-Avon, nice part of the world, we had a weekend there a few years back.

[corey123]

Maria,

I was aiming for that perhaps instead of contacting the A-Z authors, contact the Aberconway family. They own the document am I correct? If so, they have the say so.

Im not saying it is a bad idea, not at all.

[mariab]

Hi Corey,
obviously I wasn't referring to the Aberconway family, but to researchers, and particulraly to SPE, who's been generously imparting and uploading information on both casebook and the JTRForums since more than a decade.
Please recall that the Aberconway family declared to Trevor Marriott recently that they have NO problem whatsoever with the Aberconway version being made public. I still think it worthwhile that someone (perhaps Chris Phillips or Phil Carter, as they've already expressed active interest?) approaches the A-Z people about this.

[spryder]

I would appreciate it if Stephen could just point out that I did not contact him at all and that I didn't have Trevor banned.

That is correct.

[corey123]

I've never had a problem with making the results of my own research (in my own field of study), with all the work and expense that it involves, available to everyone and to anyone having asked, UNLESS the people asking were unusually rude or severely inept to deal with the information – which, needless to say, most often comes in a combination.
I still think that it would be worth the effort approaching the A-Z editors for a possible upload of the entire Aberconway version in the JTRForums. Chris Phillips, Phil Carter, anyone among you willing to volunteer in attempting this?

Hello Maria,

I would believe the authors nor editors wouldn't, as Stewart pointed out, have the right. The right is that of the Aberconway family, and it is theirs to give and keep as they please. I understand what everyone says, that this research should not be kept for personal gain, but when you work for something, or if something is of such value to a family, it is their right to present the material in however way, form, or time to their liking.