The Secret Special Branch Ledgers

[robhouse]

But I certainly think that SB was involved in the case somewhere.

I suspect you may be right, but I am not sure in what capacity. Again, since the CID was, as far as I can tell, using many of the same techniques as the SB in the detection of ordinary crime, I am not really sure that they would have needed to turn to the SB for help. The CID certainly used informants, conducted surveillance, monitored/ manipulated the Press etc. I think they may have used the Special Branch for a non-political crime perhaps if they needed to maintain a more than usual level of secrecy in their inquiries, but I am not sure otherwise why they would have been required. Of course Monro was head of Special Branch during the Ripper murders (and after) so this must be considered. But as far as I understand the Special Branch at the time was a very small sub-organization of the MET, comprised of maybe 10 or so men recruited from the ranks of CID. (???)

RH

[spyglass]

Well I think the SB would only be involved if the crimes were related to something political or crossed over somewhere.
But I have always been suspicious about why Abberline was sent back to Whitechapel to invistigate the crimes after only one murder,when murder was quite commen in that area and there was plenty of capable officers allready in situ.
I think im right in saying that Abberline was working with Littlejohn on the "irish problem" before being sent back to whitechapel.

[Garry Wroe]

… I have always been suspicious about why Abberline was sent back to Whitechapel to invistigate the crimes after only one murder,when murder was quite commen in that area and there was plenty of capable officers allready in situ.

At the time, Spyglass, the press was already attributing several murders or attempted murders to a single assailant. In such cases, it was routine to call upon the resources and experience of Scotland Yard and remained so for the better part of a century.

Well I think the SB would only be involved if the crimes were related to something political or crossed over somewhere.

Or threatened national security. Remember that the crimes were being committed in the heart of the East End, a conurbation whose denizens had threatened to rise up over issues such as unemployment, homelessness, poverty and immigration. The previous year’s Bloody Sunday would have had the authorities on red alert and, as occurred during the miners’ strike a century later, would certainly have stimulated covert information gathering operations. Hence I’m not in the least surprised that Special Branch took an interest in the Whitechapel Murders, and am also willing to bet that the matchgirls’ strike came under close scrutiny for the self same reason.

Aside from the simmering unrest in the East End, moreover, Warren expressed it as his opinion that the Whitechapel Murders were the work of a secret society. Had Matthews accorded this viewpoint even the slightest gravitas, we have another possible explanation as to why Special Branch might have taken an interest in a series of non-politically motivated sexual murders.

Regards.

Garry Wroe.

[Phil Carter]

Hello all,

Looking through Clutterbuck's thesis An Accident of History, submitted to Portsmouth University in June, 2002, he note the dates of the following. He lists when each of the points hereunder were first brought into action within Special Branch:-

Intelligence gathering from convicts & their visitors/contacts 1888/90
Specific tasking of informants 1888/90
"Lifestyle" payments to informants 1888/90
Gathering overt information from the media 1880/90
Interception of communications (postal & telegraphic) 1880/90
Systemised collection/collation/recording of intelligence and
information 1880/90

From the Chief Constable's Register, Clutterbuck noted few references that can be looked into re the Whitechapel murders. He quotes directly from a few, though not many, of the estimated 30,000 one line entries. His thesis was primarily directed towards the Fenian Issue, that notwithstanding, he noted the following:-

"Fitzgerald,Dr - Observation kept on his house, re. Dr Tanner" .

"Tanner, Dr - Complaining of police watching J.E. Kennedy".

I notice that here we have two mentions of the same doctor. Ironically, a "Dr.T"...

Talking of which, Clutterbuck also writes..

"The proposition that there was a possible Irish suspect for these murders is not as incongruous as it seems. At least one book, "The Lodger" (Evans and Gainey, 1995) is based on a Home Office memorandum relating to this idea and there are more relevant entries in the Chief Constable's Register. It does not corroborate their theory but does enable an outline to be constructed of a intriguing story involving an extreme Irish nationalist who is suspected of being "Jack the Ripper", an alleged plot to assassinate the Secretary for Ireland, Balfour, and the activities of a private detective agency."
(my emphasis)

Intruiging indeed. For here we have another reference that matches Douglas G. Browne's 1956 comment in his book The Rise of Scotland Yard.

All of which give us a tiny peep into something that could well open up Ripperology for years to come should more light be shone on these now infamous ledgers.

best wishes

Phil

[Chris]

Talking of which, Clutterbuck also writes..

"The proposition that there was a possible Irish suspect for these murders is not as incongruous as it seems. At least one book, "The Lodger" (Evans and Gainey, 1995) is based on a Home Office memorandum relating to this idea and there are more relevant entries in the Chief Constable's Register. It does not corroborate their theory but does enable an outline to be constructed of a intriguing story involving an extreme Irish nationalist who is suspected of being "Jack the Ripper", an alleged plot to assassinate the Secretary for Ireland, Balfour, and the activities of a private detective agency."
(my emphasis)

Intruiging indeed. For here we have another reference that matches Douglas G. Browne's 1956 comment in his book The Rise of Scotland Yard.

I think the important question has to be whether Clutterbuck is saying that outline can be constructed solely from information in the ledger, or whether it also requires ingredients from other sources, such as Browne's book.

[Trevor Marriott]

UPDATE

As most of you know in February 2009 I started to take steps to secure free and unlimited access to the Special Branch registers and the ledgers. In addittion to trying to secure this access I also made several specific requests relating to several entries appertaining to The ripper which i knew were contained within the registers.

The Met Police refused to acceed to any of my requests and since then I have taken the matter to the Freedom of Information commissioners. They in turn took up the case and in turn contacted the Met Police who have now responded.

The Freedom of Information commissioners having now received the response are now obliged to issue a formal decison notice to both parties. I do not know what that decision is at this time and it may be several more weeks before I am officially notified.

If they rule in favour of the police then I am at liberty to appeal that decision and ask for an independent tribunal hearing which of course I will automatically do.

I have put together a strong case to support my appeal. This is based on

1. Being able to prove that Special Branch officers provided information that was misleading to a previous tribunal (Butterworths Feb 2009) which resulted in the decison to redact all proper names from the ledgers/registers

2. Being able to prove that the vast marjority of enries in the ledgers/registers do not relate to informants as the police suggest, hence their previous objections.

Finally I have to say that all of these problems with the ledgers and access could well have been resolved in 2009 when Butterworth made his appeal to have un restricted access. However despite being the appellant he was never notified of the appeal hearing date and they went ahead without him being present, and being given the opportunity to present his case. Had he been there i have no doubt that he would have been successful.

I spoke to him following the appeal and made him aware of the appeal procedure which could only be done in The High Court and he decided against it. Had he done so he could have had the tribunal decision set aside and a new tribunal convened.

As andwhen there are any new developments I wil update everyone.

[lynn cates]

good luck

Hello Trevor. Thanks for the update!

Good luck--we are all behind you.

Cheers.
LC

[Trevor Marriott]

Thank you Lynn

I wish that were the case but it seems some are trying to get in front !

[lynn cates]

forefront

Hello Trevor. I hope your meaning is that some wish to be in the forefront of forcing the truth from the ledgers in order to eradicate all the erroneous accretions that have built up in ripperology over the years.

That would be a service indeed!

Cheers.
LC

[claire]

Good work, Trevor, and good luck!

[Phil Carter]

Hello Trevor,

I wish you the best of luck in your efforts. Let us all hope that the verdict falls in your favour.

best wishes

Phil

[Steven Russell]

Yes, good luck, Trevor.

Best wishes,
Steve.

[mariab]

3 suspects for the Ripper referred in the SB ledgers?

As a newbie I have a question pertaining to the Special Brand ledgers and their alleged referring to 3 “suspects“ for the Ripper, including “William Mac Grath“. Would the experienced Ripperologists among you be perhaps willing to explain to me what Mr. Marriot meant when he posted the quote below on the thread about Examiner 2?
Trevor Marriot quote:
The ledgers as I have seen do list the names of 2 suspects in addittion to the entry regarding McGrath so we must sit, wait, wonder, and hope. These may be names we are familiar with or may be completely new.
One way this quote makes sense is if Mr Marriot is relying on Clutterbuck's thesis, which only quotes "William Mac Grath“'s name as a suspect mentioned in the ledgers. Otherwise, if Mr. Marriot has indeed perused the ledgers, then his “we must sit, wait, wonder, and hope“ can only mean that the 3 suspects' names in the ledgers have been redacted in their current form, but we already knew about “William Mc Grath“ from Clutterbuck's thesis, so one of the 3 “suspects“ referred in the ledgers is clear already.
Clutterbuck, interestingly enough, has also claimed that he found no reference to Tumblety in the ledgers. A thought I'm having is, “Mc Grath“ is referenced in the ledgers not directly as a suspect, it only says "in connection with the Whitechapel murders“. Could it be that Magrath was questioned by the MET as a witness/informant pertaining to Tumblety, IF he happened to know Tumblety? This might make much more sense than to conjecture another painter as a Ripper suspect!
I can't wait for Examiner 4 to come out, so as to read the last part of R.J. Palmer's new research on Tumblety.
Could perhaps someone corroborate me if my above assumptions about the “3 suspects“ referred in the SB ledgers are correct or not?
Thank you very much and

[spyglass]

Trevor,
Good luck with your efforts.

[Phil Carter]

Dr. Tanner

Hello all,

Here is a transcript fron Lloyd's Weekly dated 30th December 1888, page 4 that refers to a Dr. Tanner, a name previously mentioned in this thread. Given that a Dr. Tanner was apparently under the watch of the SB, and given this man's background (Member for Cork, Ireland), as stated underneath, it may well be possible that this Dr. Tanner is the one which is written of in the SB Ledgers. It appears that this is one Dr. Charles Tanner, MP.


The Appropriation Bill.

The House then went into committee on the Appropriation bill, Sir J. Gorst in the chair.
Dr. TANNER, on the question whether Clause 1 should stand part of the bill, rose, as he said, for the specific purpose of getting an answer to a question which heasked on Thursday.
SIR JOHN GORST ruled the hon. member out of order, and despite Dr. Tanner's noisy protests put the question.—
Dr. TANNER was the only dissentient, and Sir J. GORST said: The "Ayes" have it.—Upon this Dr. TANNER shouted: The " Noes " have it.
A division was then announced, but before the members left the House Dr. TANNER said he withdrew his demand for a division.

SUSPENSION OF DR. TANNER.

Dr. CLARK, Dr. CALDWELL, and Dr. TANNER each proposed amendments on different parts of the bill, but the CHAIRMAN ruled each of the amendments out of order, and as each was ruled irrelevant much merriment was
caused on the Ministerial side of the House. One of Dr.TANNER'S amendments was to reduce the salary of the Under Secretary for India, but the chairman ruled that-it was too late to propose that now.—After nearly
half-an-hour had been spent in this way, the CHAIRMAN said that the question before the House was that Schedule B be part of the bill.
Dr. TANNER: As I disapprove strongly of the policy of murder and assassination, backed by lying, and as I'disapprove of the employment of such means, although they may be congenial to certain people—I wish to put it as mildly as I possibly can, in order that the Chief Secretary
may understand it—I move that this Schedule B be not appropriated.
The CHAIRMAN: Order, order; it is now too late for that (laughter).
Dr. TANNER: When we are here in Committee of Supply appropriating money to a swindler and a thief, the servant of the Chief Secretary for Ireland, the Chief Secretary ought to be in his place, and it is a coward
he is The CHAIRMAN : Order, order. I call upon the hon. member to resume his seat.
Dr. TANNER: I say the Chief Secretary is a coward, and I call him a coward (cries of " Order, order").
The CHAIRMAN .- I ask the hon. member to withdraw the name " coward."
Dr. TANNER, in a loud voice: I call him a coward and a liar, and he is both (" Order, order," and uproar).
The CHAIRMAN : The hon. gentleman has refused to withdraw, and repeated it. I have no alternative but to name yon, Dr. Tanner, for disregarding the authority of the chair.
Dr. TANNER shouted, "With the greatest pleasure."
Mr. GOSCHEN moved that Dr. Tanner be suspended from the service of the House.
The motion was agreed to without a discussion, and the Speaker having returned to the chair.
Sir J. GORST reported that the committee had resolved that Dr. Tanner, member for Mid-Cork, should be suspended for disregarding the authority of the chair. Mr. GOSCHEN then moved that Dr. Tanner be suspended,
and this was agreed to, there being no dissentient voice.
The House having again gone into committee, The bill was then reported without any amendments, and the third reading was fixed for noon on Saturday.

I will endeavour to try to find more eamples of this "Dr. T"...Dr. Charles Tanner was apparently at one time in March 1889 arrested and taken to Scotland Yard where he spent the night sitting in an armchair! It seems the man had much to say in the House, according to references in Hansard.
I am also wondering how many of the MP's that represented parts of Ireland were under watch at this time from the SB, given the Parnell situation.


best wishes

Phil