Scotland Yard CID Service Revolvers?

[PC Roadnight]

I believe that by 1888 the 1882 .45 Webley break-action revolver was in use by the Met.

The 1886 .45 MkI was the official Army issue until just before the Boer War when the Mk IV Webley was introduced but I doubt that the Met had acquired the Mk I by 1888.

There was little difference anyway between the 1882 and '86 apart from some Army requirement for standardisation of parts.

[YankeeSergeant]

Webley's

Fairly sure Webley weren't available during the Whitechapel murders.

Ally, I'll have to check but I believe the Webley revolver was widely available at the time and Wolf, it chambered a.455 caliber bullet. The Mark I was issued to the service in 1887 replacing the ponderous Enfield revolvers used previously and some units carried Webley-Scott revolvers. I had a chance many years ago to shoot a Webley and they put holes in things: BIG holes. They're not terribly accurate outside of 50 yards but most pistols aren't.

[SimonLMoore]

Just to clarify here the revolver issued for use by the Metropolitan Police from 1884 was a snub-nosed gate-loading model to be sold commercially as the 'Webley British Constabulary' chambered in .450 which was in fact interchangeable with the later Webley .455 round. These revolvers were still in use and found to be very much wanting in the Siege of Sidney street in 1911 as there was no real maintenance or cleaning schedule for them!

There's a nice video here which shows the detail and loading

There's a good little video here which shows the details rather well.

Two excerpts from 'Armed Burglars - The 1880s' by Mike Waldren QPM.

"On 16 October Harcourt gave Henderson authority to purchase 931 Webley .450 calibre gate-load revolvers (all with the initials M.P. together with a number between 1 and 931 inclusive stamped on the frame) with the Adams revolvers first supplied in 1868 (see Early Police Firearms) being disposed of in exchange."

"The changes to Met regulations were eventually agreed by the Home Secretary on 24 June 1884 (see Rules and Regulations) and published in force orders six days later at which time it was officially announced that: 'The following regulations relating to the issue to, and the use by Police of revolvers, having been approved, the Superintendents are to see that they are strictly adhered to. ... Revolvers are only to be issued to men who desire to have them when employed on night duty, and who can, in the opinion of the Divisional Officer, be trusted to use them with discretion ...’. Although the measure was originally intended for uniform officers on patrol in the suburbs, it is worth noting that it now applied to any officer on night duty anywhere in the Met and on 9 December it was made clear that the regulations covered CID officers at night as well. The ‘experiment’ allowing the carrying of firearms at night in the Met remained in force for the next 52 years (until July 1936)."

The rest of the article can be read here.

[Stephen Thomas]

Is there anywhere in the JTR case that a firearm is mentioned?

[SirJohnFalstaff]

Hello!

I'm having a hard time finding any photographic reference for the model of pistol issued to officers of Scotland Yard's CID division during the Whitechapel murders. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

I don't know if policemen could be "creative" with their equipment, or if they could afford it, but this is an newspaper ad from Punch, I believe. (found on Whitechapel Real time account on Twitter, history press)

[Gman992]

I always thought that they could always give the bad guys a good tongue-lashing...I mean have you ever watched Prime Minister Question Time on CSPAN?