Was Abberline incompetent ?

[spyglass]

Having studied JTR for many years now, It has always amazed me on how or why Inspector Abberline's judgement has'nt been questioned more. I refere to the letting go of Hutchinson as one major example. Does anyone one else question his competence?

[lynn cates]

negative

Hello Spyglass. No, I don't, anyway.

The best.
LC

[The Grave Maurice]

Hiya Spyglass,

From what I've read, Abberline was an exemplary officer, often working far longer hours than his salary would cover. I can't see that anyone could have done more than he. And I have no idea what you mean by "letting go of Hutchinson".

[c.d.]

Hi Spyglass,

Welcome to the boards. If you want to base Abberline's reputation soley on his failure to catch the Ripper, then I guess you would have to say that he was incompetent. That seems a bit harsh to me since he was not acting alone. Even today with computers and modern forensic science, serial killers remain uncaught. I don't see how Abberline can be blamed for the failure of the police to catch Jack. I think that he did all that he could. Sugden mentions the numerous commendations and awards that Abberline received throughout his career. The number was 84 if memory serves me. These came from the people that worked with him on a day to day basis. Obviously they thought highly of him. I see no reason to question their judgment.

c.d.

[Monty]

Seeing as Hutchinson was a witness not a suspect, and seeing as he was NEVER arrested with connection to Kellys murder, he was free to come and go as he pleased.

Abberline didnt 'let Hutchinson go'.

Abberlines records speaks for itself. His higher command and peers thought highly of him. Thats why he was called back.

To question his competence on a falsity is poor form.

Monty

[bkohatl]

I suggest that you read to recent court cases involving two people convicted for murders that they did not commit to understand why Inspector Abberline is one of my heroes.
Both cases involve kids charged with murders. Tim Masters was walking to school one day and noticed a "mannequin" several yards away from his path in the field by his bus stop. Police hounded this 15-year-old Colorado kid for ten years before trying and convicting him for the murder. You may be interested that a Judicial Review of his trial has found that there was absolutely NO physical evidence of any kind connecting Tim with the crime(no association with the 30+ year old victim, no violent history or juvenile police record). But what they did have was a psychologist who picked upon "this convincing evidence supplied by the police". What was this convincing evidence: Tim drew drawings which were of a Gothic and violent nature. This hired gun said they indicated specific knowledge of the crime scene. Based on this Psychiatrists testimony, Tim was convicted of the crime 10 years after the event. Many people call the investigation and case a police vendetta. If the police had focused on the crime and not Tim, they might have caught the real killer. With No evidence and no suspects the police hounded the only person they had, an innocent kid. They made his life a living HELL. One enterprising journalist took the drawings to a Psychiatrist of National renown, who was appalled by the Psychologists testimony. The expert said the psychologist's testimony had no basis in fact, to him, Tim was just going through a phase. Well, after 10 years in prison, Tim was freed when DNA showed someone else committed the crime(the victim had clawed her attacker, his DNA was under her finger nails). The Test-i-liar destroyed a kid's life and sent him to prison for 10 years.
The second case is worse. A boy's 12-year-old sister was murdered in Escondido, California. The police decided that her 13-year-old brother, Michael Crowe, did it. You have to watch the Youtube to understand what atrocity the police investigation was and is. They still say he did it. But on the night of the murder, neighbors spoke of "some crazy vagrant" wandering through the neighborhood. The only thing that went right in the next two years of Michael Crowe's Life was that somebody had the vagrant exchange his filthy dirty rags for some charity wear. After Michael endured a police vendetta and a conviction for murdering his sister. Someone put up money for a real defense. They found out about the clothes, had them tested and found Michael's sister's blood on them. This kid spent over a year in jail(and all that entails: he won't talk about it) for a crime he didn't commit. The police officers and DA's who convicted him still say he did it. If those clothes had not been saved, that 13-year-old boy would have spent his life in prison for a crime he didn't commit. Watch the Horror Story for yourself. I hope it makes you sick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiqSY3wjD2Y

Now, to Abberline. I know the police were under enormous pressure to catch "Jack The Ripper".
Considering the evidence supplied above and recent evidence about falsified evidence in the Crippen Case(a planted pajama by the police and manufactured or miscast forensic evidence(PBS The Crippen Case, which led to a police murder of an innocent man).
Abberline did not go out and find a scapegoat to take the pressure off and give the Public, Press, Police and Court Apparatus "the Criminal". For which, he must have endured unbelievable criticism and attacks.
Abberline did his job honorably.
From the first time I saw Mary Jane Kelly's Apartment and the carnage that took place there, I have never doubted the theory that whoever "Jack The Ripper" was had to be going insane. He also must have been arrested, killed, committed suicide or committed to an insane asylum.
Tumblety doesn't fit. He lived many years and was never accused of any other violent crime.
Monague Druitt may have been "Jack The Ripper". His suicide and bizarre behavior raises questions, but is in no way conclusive.
Aaron Kosminski. Several Police Officials believed he did it. He was the only person ID'd for the crime by an eyewitness. He was committed to an insane asylum after the crimes "stopped".
I have no evidence, but I suspect that Frederick Abberline found his killer. Once Kosminski was committed, with the guarantee that he would never be let out, Abberline was able to close the case.
If not, I believe Frederick Abberline would have hunted "Jack" the rest of his life.
Frederick Abberline was honorable and courageous. In the face of unbelievable pressure, he did his job and caught Jack The Ripper.
I wish others would have followed his example.
Frederick Abberline died poor because he was honest. I wish people in Law Enforcement would understand that the first and most important requirement for their field is honesty. Frederick Abberline at least gives us hope.

[Bob Hinton]

Hang on a minute....

Police hounded this 15-year-old Colorado kid for ten years before trying and convicting him for the murder.

The police officers and DA's who convicted him still say he did it.
.

I think you need to reign in a bit and try and get your facts straight. Police and DA's do not convict - the juries do. Now if you have two juries who were so incompetant that they got it totally wrong then you should be having a go at them.

I'm not saying that the police and DA's in this case do not deserve a good slapping too, but they cannot convict anyone.

[spyglass]

A lot of peope including modern day policemen have criticized Abberline over the handling of Hutchinson, in this I mean not seeming to regard him with much suspicion. ie his statement. I have always wondered whether high ranking policemen at that time ever went through training and took exams, or were they just promoted on years service, or even on the basis of who you knew. I believe that high ranking personnel at the time had never been police officers, but had come from the army ranks and so had no police experience.

[bkohatl]

A lot of criticism has been directed to the politicization by the rightwing of the courts and police in America. Pro bono Defense Attorneys are too often inferior and very often incompetent. Rhenquist and Roberts have practically taken away incompetent representation as a grounds for a new trial. But these are the attorneys who don't have the pull to get out of pro bono defense cases. These defense attorneys quite often have no financial resources to draw on, against the immense wealth and manpower of the state.
A jurist looked at the evidence that convicted Tim Masters and was stunned. There was no physical evidence whatsoever. There was no circumstantial evidence except the fact that Tim passed the body on his way to his school bus stop.
There was nothing which tied Tim to the crime. Just one gun for hire Psychiatrist who took "Goth" Drawings and parlayed them into a conviction.
The Scalia, Rhenquist and Roberts have curtailed the rights of the innocent. Justice is a pendulum which is all the way over to the prosecution. Benjamin Franklin said it is better that we set 10 guilty people free rather than imprison one innocent man for a crime he didn't commit.
I am horrified that innocent children are being imprisoned. I'm sure that the almost 2 years that Michael Crowe spent in jail for the murder of his sister did. How do we know that he wasn't raped in jail or beaten or tortured?
Since Ronald Reagan started attacking Defendants in his War on Crime, I read that the number of innocent people in prison has doubled to 15% of the prison population. Ronald Reagan never attacked the rights of the guilty he only attacked the rights of the innocent.
Shame on anyone who justifies the imprisonment of innocent children!
I agree with Thomas Jefferson, George Washington and Benjamin Franklin. I dare anyone to say that they would have supported the imprisoning of an innocent boy/man like Tim Masters with absolutely no evidence.
I want the Republican Psychiatrist(GUN FOR HIRE) imprisoned for what he did. If not that, then his medical license should be taken away. All these professional witnesses are good at is telling the lies that the people who employ them want told and convincingly too.
I am glad that several police officers involved in these messes have resigned, others have been reprimanded, others are being investigated for perjury. Members of both prosecutorial teams are being investigated for with-holding exculpatory evidence.
That does not give a fair trial.
Torturing(imprisoning innocent children where they can be tortured, raped and murdered) and Murdering Innocent Children(if they commit suicide, it is First Degree Murder by the prosecutor and jury) should be nearly impossible. That is my dream, it was our Founding Fathers Dream.

I have seen too many rushes to judgment where innocent (poor)people have been the ones who suffered. Does anyone keep track of DNA overturning convictions?