Robert Sagar

[Robert]

I don't know if there is anything in it, but I keep thinking of how both Harvey and Long were sacked in July 1889. Two PCs involved in the Mitre Sq investigation are both sacked at the same time (albeit a few months later). It's something that bugs me.

[Chris]

The Harcourt Interpolation

There are quite a few references to Robert Sagar in the surviving City of London CID records at the LMA, mostly from the early 1880s. They are mostly fairly routine, but one investigation he was involved in was rather unusual. The records relating to it are in the envelope numbered CLA/048/AD/11/8.

According to a memorandum by James McWilliam dated 2 February 1992, DS Randall had called on Mr Soames, solicitor [for the Times] the day before and had been told that he wished the police to try to detect the person "who caused the publication of an obscene and fictitious line in the speech of Sir Wm. Harcourt [the Home Secretary], which appeared in the Times of the 22nd [23rd] Ultimo." The Times authorities had already investigated the matter and suspected a compositor named Dalton, but had insufficient evidence to justify a prosecution. A boy employed at the Standard office was supposed to know something about it, as he had told someone at 1am that there was going to be a row over something that would appear in the Times that day.

The memorandum concludes:
"Plain Clothes Patrols Davidson and Sagar have been instructed to mix with the compositors when they go out for refreshment at night, and in the morning with a view to glean something from their conversation."

According to a further report dated 8 February, the hapless youth (named Brooker) from the Standard was interrogated, and after an initial attempt at denial, he admitted that he had known about the matter. He said he had been told about it by a man named Marriott, employed at the Times office. Marriott in turn was questioned, but denied having told Brooker anything of the sort. The enquiry was still proceeding, and the solicitor was considering whether there was sufficient evidence to institute proceedings against three men who were suspected - Marriott, Todd and [?]Double.

There is also a letter from one Alfred Pegler of Southampton, enquiring whether there is a compositor named Pond in the employ of the Times, and if so whether he is a native of Southampton. The writer hopes to throw light upon the "foul word that was allowed to pass in the paper last week."

What was this all about? After a fruitless search through Harcourt's speech for the offending word, I was surprised to find that the "Harcourt Interpolation," as "a minor scandal of Victorian London," has its own Wikipedia page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harcourt_interpolation

According to Wikipedia, the following words were put into Sir William Harcourt's mouth by the miscreant:
I saw in a Tory journal the other day a note of alarm, in which they said “Why, if a tenant-farmer is elected for the North Riding of Yorkshire the farmers will be a political power who will have to be reckoned with”. The speaker then said he felt inclined for a bit of fucking. I think that is very likely. (Laughter). But I think it is rather an extraordinary thing that the Tory party have not found that out before.

When the outrage was pointed out, the Times published an apology, and in fact reprinted a corrected version of the 23 January edition, in which Harcourt's words were restored as:


Wikipedia adds that a similar outrage took place on 12 June the same year in relation to an advertisement for a book entitled Everyday Life in Our Public Schools, and notes that subsequently "it was a rule on the paper that any compositor who was sacked left immediately with a payoff and did not work out a period of notice."

[mariab]

I don't know if there is anything in it, but I keep thinking of how both Harvey and Long were sacked in July 1889. Two PCs involved in the Mitre Sq investigation are both sacked at the same time (albeit a few months later). It's something that bugs me.

Any minute now someone will come up with a comment on “the sweet smell of conspiracy“, but I find Robert's consideration fascinating.

He said he had been told about it by a man named Marriott, employed at the Times office. Marriott in turn was questioned, but denied having told Brooker anything of the sort. The enquiry was still proceeding, and the solicitor was considering whether there was sufficient evidence to institute proceedings against three men who were suspected - Marriott, Todd and [?]Double.

I can't help but think that we might be dealing with an ancestor of Mr. Trevor Mariott's of the SB here. (With apologies for the irreverent comment.)

[Chris]

Here is the relevant bit of Harcourt's speech as originally printed, from Bob Clarke's From Grub Street to Fleet Street (2004):

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=7JUvRTXLvTgC

[Chris]

Here's an odd item from the Times of 3 April 1889. It probably means nothing, but it sounds as though Pentin knew where to find Sagar within easy reach of the south end of Duke Street, Aldgate, that evening.

[Chris]

Again, this probably means nothing, but I thought I might as well post it, as it shows that Robert Sagar took a trip to the seaside for some reason in August 1890. It's from the Hampshire Telegraph and Sussex Chronicle of 23 August 1890. I can't see any explanation of why Sagar was in Portsmouth that day, or of why Inspector Monk of Birmingham was there (Monk had previously arrested a woman named Minnie Court of Portsmouth, who was charged with stealing money from a man at Birmingham, but that had been in April [Birmingham Daily Post, 14 April 1890]).

[robhouse]

Most interesting indeed.

[Casebook Wiki Editor]

Again, this probably means nothing, but I thought I might as well post it, as it shows that Robert Sagar took a trip to the seaside for some reason in August 1890.

It may very well mean a great deal. Thanks as always.

This reminds me to ask you if you would consider putting your Sagar findings up on the Wiki....we're starting with book reviews but Sagar needs dusting off as well.

[Chris]

This reminds me to ask you if you would consider putting your Sagar findings up on the Wiki....we're starting with book reviews but Sagar needs dusting off as well.

By a strange coincidence I have been working on that today. There should be something worth posting fairly soon.

[Chris]

By a strange coincidence I have been working on that today. There should be something worth posting fairly soon.

In the course of preparing the wiki article, I realised I had never seen the context of the quotation from Major Henry Smith about Sagar - "a better or more intelligent officer than Robert Sagar I never had under my command."

As there are several pages (more or less) about Sagar in Henry Smith's memoirs, "From Constable to Commissioner" (1910), I thought it would be worth posting a transcript here. The passage is on pages 112-115:
_______________________________________________

It is strange what a fascination crime and criminals have for respectable members of society. Dickens was in his element when unravelling an intricate case, and Henry Irving, to my poor judgment, was at his best in "The Lyons Mail." Either would have preferred a walk in Bangor Street in the cold of a winter's night, by the light of the flickering oil, to a summer's day by Deeside or "the Braes o' Bonny Doon."

Crime draws us - a veritable loadstone.

Some years ago a medical student of great promise happened to share a lodging with a catcher of thieves. A few short months decided his fate. As the sword was abandoned for the pruning-hook, so was the scalpel for the truncheon. Bartholomew's and its ministering angels - most of them young, and many of them pretty - no longer attracted him; the fascination lay in the frowzy dens and common lodging-houses where brawny Amazons preside over the Irish stew, "where vice is closely packed and lacks the room to turn." Were Roberts and Kitchener on one platform, bound for the plains where soldiers meet in mimic warfare, and the chained gang on another, the saviours of their country would have a miserable following - they would not be "in it" with the malefactors.

When a young man is determined not to follow the trade chosen for him by his parents, but to strike out in another direction, it is bad policy to thwart him. Picton was meant by his parents to wield a pen in a writer's office; Hector Macdonald to trot about with a yard measure. They chose other weapons - with what success England in its hour of need was fated to discover. The medical student, when he abandoned one trade and chose another, chose wisely, for a better or more intelligent officer than Robert Sagar I never had under my command.

On the morning of January 24, 1886, snow lay to the depth of three or four inches in the streets of the City, and constables who had been on duty for eight weary hours were longing for relief. The police are very thick on the ground in the "one square mile." There was always a man in Bishopsgate Churchyard, and another less than a hundred yards from him in Broad Street. Suddenly the latter, a man named Hutt, thought he saw the pavement rise within a short distance of where he was standing, and going cautiously forward, stood at attention. Presently the pavement - a cellar-flap in front of a jeweller's shop - rose again. Stepping on to the top of it, he whistled for assistance, and was instantly joined by the constable from the churchyard. Lifting the flap, they saw a man about thirty years of age, and pulling him up, marched him off to the Old Jewry with 80 watches and 219 rings on him. Sagar, the "stickit" doctor, I instructed to see to the case, and endeavour to find out the antecedents of the man arrested. Nothing was known in those days of "finger-print" identification; all we had to aid us were photographs, many of them taken by force - for criminals used to fight and struggle in order to prevent a correct representation being got of their features - and nearly all faded and unreliable. There were many albums filled with them at the Old Jewry, but Sagar was not long before he appeared in my room. "That's Donald Grant, sir," he said, handing me a photo in which I could see no resemblance whatever to the prisoner. "I am quite sure of him, sir," continued Sagar, "although he is ten years older since it was taken. You remember he tried to escape from Portland; was shot on the inside of the left thigh and recaptured." We stripped him, and there was the scar distinctly visible. Commissioner Kerr gave Grant a light sentence - eighteen months' hard labour. He did that, committed another burglary shortly after his release, was again apprehended, and again tried at the Old Bailey. He got ten years - his second stretch of that length - but the Scythe-bearer stepped in and shortened it by one-half.

[Chris]

Here is a report of the appearance of the accused in court at the Guildhall, from the Standard of 26 January 1886. Curiously, two men, not one, were involved. Also, no one need be alarmed by Smith's mention of Hutt whistling for assistance - it seems his memory was at fault on that detail.

The report also identifies the "man named Hutt" as PC George Hutt, the same who had custody of Catherine Eddowes on the night of her murder.

[Rob Clack]

This case is mentioned in the City Police Orders book for 1886.




And Hutt was rewarded with a presentation watch.



Rob

[Chris]

To try to make better sense of the various newspaper reports of Robert Sagar's retirement I've put together a web page showing the texts of the four main ones in parallel. I think it helps, though there's obviously no simple relationship between them. The web page can be found here:

http://cgp100.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/SagarReports.htm

[Stephen Thomas]

To try to make better sense of the various newspaper reports of Robert Sagar's retirement I've put together a web page showing the texts of the four main ones in parallel. I think it helps, though there's obviously no simple relationship between them. The web page can be found here:
http://cgp100.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/SagarReports.htm

Hi Chris

Your work here is absolutely top notch.

Would you say that Sagar's story backs up SRA's so-called 'theory' ?

[Chris]

Stephen

Thanks for your kind words.

Whereas the information we had previously about Sagar's suspect made it seem possible that he could be Aaron Kozminski, I think it's fairly clear in the light of the full reports that that isn't the case. So in that sense there's no backing for Anderson's theory here, and Sagar has to be reckoned as another officer who either had no knowledge of Kozminski or was not convinced by the evidence against him.

Incidentally, one thing that comes out of the comparison of the different reports is that the undiscovered original of the Seattle Daily Times report was probably also the basis of a brief report in the Daily Mail, which appeared on 9 January 1905 (and was subsequently quoted in the Police Review). The words in bold in the extracts below don't occur in the other reports we have.

"... following crime investigation as a hobby, he helped to arrest over a hundred persons. While pursuing a burglar he fell on a pickaxe and injured his leg, and this brought him directly under the notice of the City Commissioner, who invited him to join the detective force."
[Daily Mail]

"Crime investigation became his hobby, and during his five years at St Bartholomew's Hospital he enjoyed the extraordinary experience of helping to arrest over a hundred wrongdoers ... An exploit in which, while pursuing a burglar, he stumbled upon a pickaxe and injured his leg, brought young Sagar directly under the notice of Sir James Fraser, chief commissioner of the city police."
[Seattle Daily Times]

The Seattle Daily Times article is probably only an excerpt from its source, as it doesn't appear to contain anything relevant to its final heading, "Has a Charmed Life."