Long, P.C. Alfred (recovered)

[Simon Wood]

Hi Joshua,

Thank you.

The older Long makes much more sense.

Interesting, though, that the younger one, b. Hertfordshire, was a policeman.

Hence the confusion.

Regards,

Simon

[Simon Wood]

Hi Joshua,



Regards,

Simon

[Joshua Rogan]

Good work, that looks like the chap!

[Monty]

The A-Z entry is correct, as it is based upon Longs A division ledger entry, with the information provided by Long himself.

Monty

[Joshua Rogan]

What I've unearthed so far about Long (or Short);

Apparently his head wound suffered in the first battle didn't keep him out of action for long, as he earned battle honours for all three actions in the Afghan Campaign - Charasiab, Kabul and Kandahar.
He was in Troop A of the 9th Lancers.

That's about it. No news on his DCM as yet. He shows up as both Long and Short on a search of this site;

https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk/

You have to be a subscriber to see the details, though, and it may not show any more than we already know - Anyone already subscribe?

[Rosella]

Jeez, Long decided to go into the army under the name of Short. I wonder how long (no pun intended) it took him to think of that alias!

[PC2267]

Surely his military service papers would document whether he had been awarded the DCM or not and a citation for such an award must exist?

Does his police papers not document the same?

Another possible result might be, from press reports at the time of him finding the Goulston Street apron? If he had won the DCM surely that would have come up during the reporters investigation of the story?

[Joshua Rogan]

If I've read Monty's posts correctly, the information in police papers was supplied by Long himself, however perhaps Monty could confirm whether this info was likely to have been verified or just accepted.

I've been scouring issues of The London Gazette for 1880ish, which should report all citations and awards of DCMs and other medals, but haven't found any mention of Long (or Short) so far, except confirmation of his head wound. Mind you, I haven't found a DCM citation for anyone else either, so maybe my searching technique is at fault. I did read through a few quite lengthy reports from the C in C of the Kabul Field Force reporting the actions and events in Afghanistan. These go into a surprising amount of detail - I now know how many .50 Martini-Henry rifle rounds were fired by the 9th Lancers, for instance - but again I haven't found our man, as yet. I did find a couple of VC recommendations, including one from Rourke's Drift, which was going on at much the same time in another hemisphere.

I'm starting to have doubts about the DCM claim. According to Wikipedia, there were over 2,800 awarded in the Victorian era, but less than 50 of these were awarded between the Crimean an Boer wars. That's barely one a year. Perhaps getting shot in the head affected Long's memory? Or perhaps confirmation still awaits discovery.

[DJA]

I did find a couple of VC recommendations, including one from Rourke's Drift, which was going on at much the same time in another hemisphere.

The Royal Engineers was Warrens old outfit.

One Frank Carter was a member.

Warren took some effort to discredit Packer and have him change his testimony.

Could Carter have been BS man hired by Eddowes and Stride to protect them?

[Monty]

If I've read Monty's posts correctly, the information in police papers was supplied by Long himself, however perhaps Monty could confirm whether this info was likely to have been verified or just accepted.

I've been scouring issues of The London Gazette for 1880ish, which should report all citations and awards of DCMs and other medals, but haven't found any mention of Long (or Short) so far, except confirmation of his head wound. Mind you, I haven't found a DCM citation for anyone else either, so maybe my searching technique is at fault. I did read through a few quite lengthy reports from the C in C of the Kabul Field Force reporting the actions and events in Afghanistan. These go into a surprising amount of detail - I now know how many .50 Martini-Henry rifle rounds were fired by the 9th Lancers, for instance - but again I haven't found our man, as yet. I did find a couple of VC recommendations, including one from Rourke's Drift, which was going on at much the same time in another hemisphere.

I'm starting to have doubts about the DCM claim. According to Wikipedia, there were over 2,800 awarded in the Victorian era, but less than 50 of these were awarded between the Crimean an Boer wars. That's barely one a year. Perhaps getting shot in the head affected Long's memory? Or perhaps confirmation still awaits discovery.

Long would have had to have provided at least two character references, most commonly from his previous employers and/or someone in an upstanding position in society who could vouch for him, a Vicar, Councillor etc.

These would be checked out and verified. Either by the Met themselves, or via the constabulary from where the applicant/referee lived.

Monty

[Rosella]

Surely the 9th Lancers archives would contain info on awards of the DCM to its soldiers? They merged in the 1970's (I think) with another regiment to make up the 9th/12th Royal Lancers (Prince of Wales) but you would think the records would still be held.

[Mayerling]

Last time I saw a reference to the Afghan war of 1879 - 1880 was regarding a wounded veteran of the "fatal battle of Maiwand", who was saved by his orderly Murray. But that was fictional (at least I'm reluctantly saying so).

Frederick Roberts eventually was the Commander-in-Chief of the British Army until the years before World War I (and a vociferous supporter of preparedness against the threat from Wilhelmine Germany). His crowning moment in the Afghan War was "the March to Kandahar" in 1880. He died in 1914.

[Joshua Rogan]

Not entirely fiction, perhaps?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2095088/The-REAL-Dr-Watson-The-Victorian-army-medic-inspiration-Sherlocks-trusty-sidekick.html

[Joshua Rogan]

Long would have had to have provided at least two character references, most commonly from his previous employers and/or someone in an upstanding position in society who could vouch for him, a Vicar, Councillor etc.

These would be checked out and verified. Either by the Met themselves, or via the constabulary from where the applicant/referee lived.

Monty

Thanks for that. So we can be reasonably sure his DCM wasn't entirely fiction, too.

[PC2267]

I find it very curious that this topic hasn't come up before and if he had been awarded the DCM it would be well documented and common knowledge in our Ripper related circles?