What is the history of the canonical five?

[Mort Belfry]

How often is it referenced that Nichols, Chapman, Stride, Eddowes and Kelly were the (only) victims by the first generation of police officials? Is the list completely derived Macnaghten?

Do we know for example if Robert Anderson considered Stride a Ripper victim? Does he mention it in Lighter Side at all?

[perrymason]

Hi Mort,

Im sure youll get more thorough responses, but no, Macnaughten is not the reason we have a Canonical Group, nor is it Bonds doing, but essentially all of the senior officers that had access to all reports of the period. This group of 5 concept was widely supported among the contemporary police....hardly any saw a smaller group by a single killer.

My personal observation would be that I cant see why they would advertise the fact that on the books they had potentially 5 individual murders, .....one elusive and clever killer...which many of their published comments on him were like...is a far better PR position than potentially 5 murderers on the loose, and far more if you factor the non-canonicals.

The Canonicals, in my opinion, are in part "spin" by the authorities. Those 5 cases were never solved....so to suggest an unknown murderer did those five seems like something more for their reputations than the investigations themselves.

The end result is that they didnt catch a killer based on their position,... when in fact they may not have caught or had any clues about multiple murderers.

Cheers Mort.

[Monty]

My belief

...is that Martin Fido was the first to commonly use the phrase. I cant recall for certain if he inturn used it after William Stewart or Tom Cullen. It certainly is in reference to MacNaghten memo.

[perrymason]

...is that Martin Fido was the first to commonly use the phrase. I cant recall for certain if he inturn used it after William Stewart or Tom Cullen. It certainly is in reference to MacNaghten memo.

I wasnt aware the phrase came into use so recently Monty....comparatively speaking.

It sure took though....like carrots to horses.

I cant say that I ever, from the first book, saw that as a likely probability...and since I dont imagine myself a superior intellect to those in charge at the time,..I suspect that they werent smitten....just being prudent perhaps.

Cheers Monty

[The Grave Maurice]

We seem to have two topics going here: the number of victims identified by contemporary investigators and the origin of the phrase C5. As to the second subject, although we've talked about it in the past, I don't believe that we ever got farther than this. And, unfortunately, much as I'd like to, I don't own a copy of Lighter Side, so I can't help with that one either.