The Possible Murder of Georgina Byrne

[David Orsam]

Was Duffin the least curious police officer ever? Why didn't he at least ask the two men what had happened?

Can you imagine if this had turned out to be a Ripper murder, like Nichols?

The arguments that would be going on here about PC Duffin are best not contemplated.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Can you imagine if this had turned out to be a Ripper murder, like Nichols?

The arguments that would be going on here about PC Duffin are best not contemplated.

Mizen appears to be supercop by comparison.

I suppose that the 'innocent' explanation is that the two men saw a woman pass out in the street, went over to help, a policeman arrives, they see that she's dead, neither want to get involved or possibly be blamed in any way so they scarper.

[David Orsam]

I suppose that the 'innocent' explanation is that the two men saw a woman pass out in the street, went over to help, a policeman arrives, they see that she's dead, neither want to get involved or possibly be blamed in any way so they scarper.

I might have gone along with that were it not for one thing: Why on earth did the man in the tall silk hat say he was her husband???

I am open to all conspiracy theories on this one!

[Herlock Sholmes]

I might have gone along with that were it not for one thing: Why on earth did the man in the tall silk hat say he was her husband???

I am open to all conspiracy theories on this one!

Maybe 'husband' propositioned her. She had a heart attack. Second man shows up. 'Husband' says she's my wife to Duffin to avoid any thought of him picking up or arguing/harming a woman in the street.

I can hear a stampede of 'what if's' coming to disturb a herd of 'maybe's' David.

[jerryd]

I am open to all conspiracy theories on this one!

I just happen to have one for ya. haha

First things first.

Shortly after eleven o'clock on Saturday night, while patrolling his beat in the Blackfriars-road, Constable M73 noticed a crowd assembled opposite the late Rowland Hill Chapel

After a little research I found Rowland Hill Chapel was demolished in 1881 but is seen here in the red box in 1868 as Surrey Chapel (The Surrey Chapel (1783-1881) was an independent Methodist and Congregational church established in Blackfriars Road, Southwark, London on 8 June 1783 by the Rev. Rowland Hill)WIKIPEDIA .At the top of the box is York Street. I know it's a bit of a stretch but Thomas Conway was known to being living in York Street, Walworth at the time of Kate's murder with his son's Thomas Jr. and George. Walworth as far as I know is a bit south of here and there is a York Street further to the southwest of this location in Walworth. Also living in York Street, Walworth in 1888 was Thomas Drew. Drew was Polly Nichols ex partner. Nichols lived in York Street until 1887 when she left Drew. If the press got the wrong York Street, which we know happens, then this could be an alternative not far from Walworth.

You said you were open to ALL conspiracy theories, David.

In any event, we have a map of the murder site.

[David Orsam]

Well it's certainly logical to assume that the other man saw Silk Top Hat man in company with the woman which is why he had to explain how he knew her.

But then we have to ask ourselves what was this woman, who lived in Canterbury, doing walking along Blackfriars Road on her own at 11pm on Saturday night.

According to the inquest testimony of Matthew Nelson, said to be her father, as reported in the Times, "He did not know her object in being in London, but could only surmise that she intended to pay at visit to her sister".

At 11pm?

So I'm thinking the most logical explanation is that Mrs Byrne was not alone but was actually in the company of Silk Top Hat man.

Which then leads to the question of why he not only fled the scene but was so callous as to falsely say he was going to fetch medical assistance when he surely could not have been sure she was dead.

According to the Times report of the inquest, PC Duffin asked him "if the woman was hurt, and he answered "Yes." He said he would go for medical aid but did not return". So despite believing the woman was "hurt" he still didn't fetch a doctor.

She was carrying two pounds in gold. What was going on?

Did she turn to high class prostitution after the death of her husband? Was Silk Top Hat man a punter?

Or was she a spy, murdered by some sort of undetectable poison?

After all, women aged 34 don't usually just drop dead in the street.

[David Orsam]

You said you were open to ALL conspiracy theories, David.

Absolutely! Keep going Jerry.

[jerryd]

Absolutely! Keep going Jerry.

Not far from this location and also visible on this map to the right near Southwark Bridge Road is the Mint Street Workhouse. Awhile back Debs found an entry for a Thomas Conway, of the right age, being admitted to the Mint Street Workhouse on October 5th, 1888. This would be Thomas Conway the younger. This young man was said to be a "fish curer" and I haven't found any proof this is Eddowes' son. I have also had a long standing search for a Thomas Conway, age 19, that was a recruiter for Charles Hammond and his Cleveland Street scoundrels. This young man also fits exactly to the age of Eddowes' son. In the 1891 census, Thomas Conway, jr is living on Lombard Street and is a night watchman. Lombard Street is also visible on this map just below the Mint Street workhouse.

[Herlock Sholmes]

David,
You beat me to it.

As she didn't appear to be 'of the poorer class' the question that comes up is 'why was she out and about, alone, at 11pm?' At that time, as we know, no 'respectable' woman would be. Therefore it's likely that she was with someone so an assignation with Top Hat is likeliest. She collapses, possibly after an arguement. TH is trying to revive her when 2nd man arrives and tries to help. TH, not wishing to appear to be up to no good, tells him that she is his wife. Maybe he's already married (maybe that's what the 'arguement' was about?) Just then Duffin of Dock Green arrives. TH tells him it's his wife (as he's already said the same to 2nd man) but realises that he doesn't want to be here and possibly get named in connection with the woman. So he takes the opportunity of 'offering to go for a doctor and scarpers. The 2nd man also decides that he doesn't want to be involved (maybe he was worried about his reputation too) so as soon as Duffin's back is turned he follows suit and legs it.

You would have thought that, while TH was 'away,' Duffin would have taken the opportunity to get more background information on 'events' from second man? It would be interesting to know how old Duffin was? Maybe he was young and inexperienced? This might have been his first dead body and he panicked a bit?

If it was an 'assignation' why did she have a pair of boots with her? I've had a few strange dates in my time but no woman has ever turned up with a spare pair of boots! I 'assume' that they were men's boots?

This seems a likely possible scenario. Sorry but I didn't have time to weave in those pesky Freemasons.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Wouldn't Duffin have thought it a bit strange that TH didnt want to remain with his 'wife' while 2nd man was sent for the Doctor?

[Joshua Rogan]

Wouldn't Duffin have thought it a bit strange that TH didnt want to remain with his 'wife' while 2nd man was sent for the Doctor?

Maybe it was the second man who originally went for help, but either returned without finding any or never came back at all, forcing/allowing the "husband" to go himself?

Was the PC duty bound to stay with the woman? Presumably he wasn't medically qualified to pronounce her dead so, like PC Thompson with Frances Coles, had to stay until help arrived?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Maybe it was the second man who originally went for help, but either returned without finding any or never came back at all, forcing/allowing the "husband" to go himself?

Was the PC duty bound to stay with the woman? Presumably he wasn't medically qualified to pronounce her dead so, like PC Thompson with Frances Coles, had to stay until help arrived?

You're probably right there Joshua. Especially considering the words 'a surgeon could not be found,' shows that some effort had already been made. Then TH decides to go himself.
Out of curiosity do we know how old PC Duffin was at the time Joshua?

[Herlock Sholmes]

David,

I wonder if the man in the top hat was Sir Jim?

[David Orsam]

David,

I wonder if the man in the top hat was Sir Jim?

Can't be, there's nothing about it in the Diary!

[David Orsam]

Out of curiosity do we know how old PC Duffin was at the time Joshua?

He was baptised, shortly after his birth, on 6 November 1859, which would, depending on exactly when he was born, have made him either 28 or 29 years old in September 1888.

He was Constable Henry Duffin, 73 L, a former "excavator" from Hampshire, who joined the Met Police on 8 June 1885 and remained in the force until 26 December 1901 when he was dismissed! (I don't know why.)