The Possible Murder of Georgina Byrne

[Abby Normal]

[QUOTE=Pierre;428062]

Of course it doesn't do this on the face of it John,

"Utterly impossible" is impossible.

It is either impossible or possible.

or impossible or possible with an adjective in front of it.

example-It is utterly possible that pierre might be a troll.

[David Orsam]

"Utterly impossible" is impossible.

It is either impossible or possible.

Oh my dear boy, would it be fair to say that English is your second language?

Let's ask one of the greatest living English authors, Charles Dickens, what he thinks about it:

"As to Sir Leicester, he conceives it utterly impossible that anything can be wanting, in any direction, by any one who has the good fortune to be received under that roof; and in a state of sublime satisfaction, he moves among the company, a magnificent refrigerator."

Bleak House

and

"I think it impossible, utterly impossible, for any Englishman to live here, and be happy."

Letter from America, 1841

Shall we also ask W.H. Auden?

"Recent history has made it utterly impossible for the most unsophisticated and ignorant audience to ignore the historical reality of the Jews and think of them as fairy-story bogeys with huge noses and red wigs."

One doesn't need to be English, though, for we could also ask Tolstoy:

"The place was taken, and whenever he tried to imagine any of the girls he knew in that place, he felt that it was utterly impossible."

Anna Karenina

My dear boy, I could literally give you a million examples.

Not for the first time, your attempt to correct my English fails miserably.

I can't say it's utterly impossible that one day you will get something right but it hasn't quite happened yet.

[Herlock Sholmes]

[QUOTE=Abby Normal;428069]

or impossible or possible with an adjective in front of it.

example-It is utterly possible that pierre might be a troll.

Abby are you suggesting that Pierre lives under a bridge?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Oh my dear boy, would it be fair to say that English is your second language?

Let's ask one of the greatest living English authors, Charles Dickens, what he thinks about it:

"As to Sir Leicester, he conceives it utterly impossible that anything can be wanting, in any direction, by any one who has the good fortune to be received under that roof; and in a state of sublime satisfaction, he moves among the company, a magnificent refrigerator."

Bleak House

and

"I think it impossible, utterly impossible, for any Englishman to live here, and be happy."

Letter from America, 1841

Shall we also ask W.H. Auden?

"Recent history has made it utterly impossible for the most unsophisticated and ignorant audience to ignore the historical reality of the Jews and think of them as fairy-story bogeys with huge noses and red wigs."

One doesn't need to be English, though, for we could also ask Tolstoy:

"The place was taken, and whenever he tried to imagine any of the girls he knew in that place, he felt that it was utterly impossible."

Anna Karenina

My dear boy, I could literally give you a million examples.

Not for the first time, your attempt to correct my English fails miserably.

I can't say it's utterly impossible that one day you will get something right but it hasn't quite happened yet.

Or would it be a 'one-off instance?'

[harry]

Why me,David? Have I made something else up?
I question everyones memory of events.Muffin was under more pressure than Mizen,but in my opinion acted more promptly.While I believe Mizen lied,any error on Muffin's part was due to the circumstances presented.Not that I perceive any error.
Trying to raise her up, was I believe,an important observation.How do two people raise another up.One each side,grasping by the upper arms and shoulders.No surprise then that the only marks were superficial bruising in that area of the body.

[Abby Normal]

Hooray! At last, after 148 posts, someone questions whether PC Duffin's account was true!!! Harry, I hoped it would be you and you have not let me down.

Just goes to show that people don't (and probably shouldn't) assume a police officer lies when he really doesn't need to! Or any evidence that he did!

[drstrange169]

>>The issue being discussed is whether an officer was required, under the terms of the police code, to take particulars of individuals in circumstances of a lady lying in the street ...<<

I don't have a problem with the police code, it seems clear enough. For me it's more a question of prudence.

>>...so the issues of knocking up and being on a different beat are irrelevant.<<

Not really, your quote above is specifically vague. One PC saw a women lying in the street, on his beat, surrounded by a large number of witnesses and acted accordingly.

The other policeman, heard a vague, disputed story and apparently stopped performing his duty to go to another divisions territory leaving his beat unattended and, presumably, his knocking up unfinished.

In such a case it would have been prudent to gain more information from the two men telling him the unsubstantiated story.

>>If you think that I was saying the two incidents were identical you have obviously misunderstood me.<<

No misunderstanding, as I have pointed, I just see no real connection between two vastly different scenarios, still don't.

[drstrange169]

>I don't know why you say "allowed to leave". Duffin had no power to stop anyone leaving other than carrying out an arrest.<<

Just a turn of phrase on my part, nothing sinister implied by it.

Duffin had the opportunity to ask the man to stay and help his "wife", but chose not to.

>>And I do like the euphemism that the man "voluntarily identified himself, albeit falsely". Another way of saying this is that he lied! <<

Presumably so, unless it was a bigamous marriage.

>>... we could say that Charles Cross "voluntarily mentioned that there was another officer in Bucks Row, albeit falsely".<<

Not really, no.

Mr. 'top hat" was identifying himself (albeit falsely), Xmere never identified himself, falsely or otherwise and Mizen never asked him to.
__________________

[drstrange169]

>>Duffin still couldn't possibly have known if the woman had been murdered or simply fallen over and bumped her head until he investigated the situation. Just as Mizen couldn't have known if the woman in Bucks Row had collapsed with a diseased heart or was drunk etc.<<

Not so. Mizen couldn't possibly know that there actually was a woman in Buck's Row and that is the big difference.


>>Do you not agree that at least one of the men, possibly both, left the crime scene, with one of them telling a direct lie in order to provide an excuse to leave and the officer apparently taking no details?<<

As far as Duffin knew, he had details. The man was her husband and he was going to fetch medical help.

If so, I suggest there is a blatantly obvious similarity. If not, please explain why those things did not happen.

See all previous answers.
__________________

[drstrange169]

>>It wasn’t actually. PC Endacott had to inform the custody sergeant and the magistrate that he had seen her pestering men.<<

Well, it comes down to which version you believe.

You presumably believe Endacott and not Elizabeth Cass and the Warren inquiry witness, Walford. Both of whom claimed she was not "pestering men" when she was arrested.

I'd have to check, but I don't believe Cass was charged with "pestering" men, rather that Endacott claimed he knew her to be a regular prostitute that he supposedly had been watching for many days.

[Abby Normal]

>>The point that David was making on discovering and posting this incident was that Mizen has been criticised for allowing CL and Paul to go on their way without taking their details. <<

Of course, the circumstances are very different between the two incidents.

Mizen was engaged in a duty (knocking up) and was requested to, not only, leave his beat, but cease his lawful duty and enter another police division's jurisdiction by two, arguable suspicious characters.

In this case, Duffin came upon an incident that was on his beat, in a crowded street. The one person allowed to leave in search of help had voluntarily identified himself, albeit falsely.

So you are saying mizen was wrong then to leave his beat?

[harry]

What if Muffin observed was two men forcing the woman down,and not raising her up?

[Pierre]

[QUOTE=David Orsam;428070]

Oh my dear boy, would it be fair to say that English is your second language?

Oh dear Oscar, would it be fair to say thay you have no education in statistics?

Let's ask one of the greatest living English authors, Charles Dickens, what he thinks about it:

Letīs not. Letīs use modern science instead of Dickens:

http://www.statisticshowto.com/binary-variable-2/

My dear boy, I could literally give you a million examples.

Not for the first time, your attempt to correct my English fails miserably.

I can't say it's utterly impossible that one day you will get something right but it hasn't quite happened yet.

My dear Oscar, I could give you a million examples.

Not for the first time, your attempt to correct my scientific point fails miserably.

I canīt say it is impossible that one day you will get something right but it hasnīt quite happened yet.

And...

HAHAHA! You live in the world of Dickens and speak to people on a forum in 2017 as if it was 1841!!!



Pierre

[David Orsam]

Why me,David? Have I made something else up?

That's a strange question Harry. How was I saying you had made something up? I was celebrating the fact that you were questioning PC Duffin's evidence.

[David Orsam]

Not really, your quote above is specifically vague. One PC saw a women lying in the street, on his beat, surrounded by a large number of witnesses and acted accordingly.

The other policeman, heard a vague, disputed story and apparently stopped performing his duty to go to another divisions territory leaving his beat unattended and, presumably, his knocking up unfinished.

In such a case it would have been prudent to gain more information from the two men telling him the unsubstantiated story.

"vague, disputed story"? What does that mean? How was a specific report of a woman lying in Bucks Row vague? And how was it disputed?

What more information did Mizen need? And what more information could the carmen have given him?