PC Thain's beat

[DJA]

Simon

Are you suggesting that it was not luck at all?

I ask because am aware that you have suggested before that the police officers did not give a shall we say fully accurate account at the inquest.

If you are still of that opinion can I ask what sources/evidence you use to support this idea or is it just a feeling you have?

I am trying to cover all aspects of Bucks Row, so all alternative views are of great interest to me.

All the best


Steve

Constable John Neil's inquest testimony is interesting. He was never far from "the spot".
There were three police thereabouts. Not one of them saw anything.

[Elamarna]

Reckon you nailed it with "2".

Main perimeter is roughly 2000m or 1 and a 1/4 miles. Add the odd street or three and you have variable 30 minute beats.

Neil's beat is a different kettle of fish. Lots of difficult spots,as mentioned to GUT in post #20.

Thanks Dave.


Steve

[Elamarna]

Hi All,

Given their two beats, it's nothing short of serendipity that PC Thain should appear at the Brady Street end of Bucks Row at the exact moment PC Neil was flashing his bullseye lantern for assistance.

Regards,

Simon

Simon

Are you suggesting that it was not luck at all?

I ask because am aware that you have suggested before that the police officers did not give a shall we say fully accurate account at the inquest.

If you are still of that opinion can I ask what sources/evidence you use to support this idea or is it just a feeling you have?

I am trying to cover all aspects of Bucks Row, so all alternative views are of great interest to me.

All the best


Steve

[DJA]

Having reread the various reports Thain gave at the inquest, he clearly says he passed Bucks Row every 30 mins.
The only ways that this can be so, given the distances of his full beat are:

1.He walked at a much faster pace than the standard 3mph. He would need to go at over 4mph.

2. Not every one of the internal roads was walked on every circuit of the beat. For instance on circuit one he may have checked Bath and Fosters and the surrounding roads; but not those in the northern section. While on circuit 2 that was reversed.

I wonder if anyone would care to comment on which they feel is the most likely ? Or do we think that Thain was not accurate with how long the route took him.




Steve

Reckon you nailed it with "2".

Main perimeter is roughly 2000m or 1 and a 1/4 miles. Add the odd street or three and you have variable 30 minute beats.

Neil's beat is a different kettle of fish. Lots of difficult spots,as mentioned to GUT in post #20.

[David Orsam]

Given their two beats, it's nothing short of serendipity that PC Thain should appear at the Brady Street end of Bucks Row at the exact moment PC Neil was flashing his bullseye lantern for assistance.

Neil must have thought it really was his lucky day when Mizen appeared from nowhere too.

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

Given their two beats, it's nothing short of serendipity that PC Thain should appear at the Brady Street end of Bucks Row at the exact moment PC Neil was flashing his bullseye lantern for assistance.

Regards,

Simon

[The Station Cat]

Sorry, I can't remember who originally posted this.

I made this map. It's based on the news paper report, but as I didn't have a period map, I had to use a modern one from Google maps, so the street plans might vary as the area has been developed considerable over the last 100+ years, but it's meant to just be a rough guide.

Going off subject slightly, I'm currently trying to ascertain the positions of the fixed points, once I have done this I'll be sure to post them onto the forum.

[Elamarna]

alternating route?

Having reread the various reports Thain gave at the inquest, he clearly says he passed Bucks Row every 30 mins.
The only ways that this can be so, given the distances of his full beat are:

1.He walked at a much faster pace than the standard 3mph. He would need to go at over 4mph.

2. Not every one of the internal roads was walked on every circuit of the beat. For instance on circuit one he may have checked Bath and Fosters and the surrounding roads; but not those in the northern section. While on circuit 2 that was reversed.

I wonder if anyone would care to comment on which they feel is the most likely ? Or do we think that Thain was not accurate with how long the route took him.




Steve

[Elamarna]

I'm guessing within this area, but then how does Winthrop Street fit in?

Maybe he did the Woods Buildings.

The very reason I am checking his beat Dusty.

He said he gave it to another officer, who if so was probably Neil. That must have been either when they left the station and started or at some point when they intersected.

Or Thain went to the slaughter house for his breaks which he was allowed and left it there.

Need to do some maths and see how often they would insect in Brady street..

Thanks for the help.


Steve

[Elamarna]

>>Neil's looks short compared to Thain's or am I missing something?<<

Yes, Monty's Post;-)
I suspect what is illustrated might be the daytime beat

Dusty

The route I quoted earlier post 3 or 4 I think says it's the evening beat and gives the external route only but adds internals and yards adding up to about 20 in total.

The report is listed in full post 26 thread PC Neil's route. Looks like Thain just drew the short straw And got along beat.


Steve

[Elamarna]

Sorry, I can't remember who originally posted this.

Dusty that is great.

I had not included the two on the left of Brady street so that would push it up to around 40 minutes I guess For the whole beat. I will remeasure over weekend.

Steve

[Elamarna]

Beats were divided in to two, day and night.

They were measured with a beat wheel and whilst not exactly matching, they endeavoured that the distances were roughly the same.

This resulted in a beat of roughly 30 mins in London, longer in the suburbs.

30 mins beat were commonly patrolled in the day. These were divided at night into two 15 mins beats.

Obviously timings were not exact, due to distance differations and incidents or duties which may occur on the beat.

Hope that helps.

Monty

Thanks Monty

So a 37 minute beat would not be impossible given ALL the internal roads?

Steve

[drstrange169]

I'm guessing within this area, but then how does Winthrop Street fit in?

Maybe he did the Woods Buildings.

[drstrange169]

>>Neil's looks short compared to Thain's or am I missing something?<<

Yes, Monty's Post;-)
I suspect what is illustrated might be the daytime beat

[DJA]

Whitechapel Station,London Hospital,Infirmary,shelter and public housing project.