POLICE ORDERS, what treasure they must contain.....

[The Station Cat]

Police orders..................

I believe I'm right in saying that police orders came out weekly?

That being said, officers sent to H Division as reinforcements on a daily basis, would these be documented within Police Orders at the end of the week?

Assuming that EVERY officer sent to H Division for however long is documented somewhere within police orders. (the same officer appearing several times perhaps?)

Is it just a "simple" case of going through orders between the dates in question and documenting every officer listed? Granted that this would be a very lengthy process but not an impossible one?

I assume all those concerned would be documented like the below example?

I find it curious that given this wealth of information contained with police orders about reinforcements, that no one has conducted it before?

Surely I can't be the only person with a thirst for such knowledge?

[David Orsam]

Police Orders were issued every day except Sundays.

You could certainly do what you suggest - although you would need to go through many years of POs - but at the end you would have no more than a long list of names. I'm not sure what real knowledge you would gain from that.

[MysterySinger]

Have to agree with David - I'm not sure what the results would actually tell you?

[The Station Cat]

I see where you coming from Gents, but think of the gains long term from a research perspective, for the medal collector like myself. If you could confirm that a medal you had in your collection, was in fact to a man would had in fact been sent to H Division, as a reinforcement.

[David Orsam]

I see where you coming from Gents, but think of the gains long term from a research perspective, for the medal collector like myself. If you could confirm that a medal you had in your collection, was in fact to a man would had in fact been sent to H Division, as a reinforcement.

Well I think the problem there is that it won't tell you those officers sent to H Division as temporary reinforcements in 1888, such as those drafted in from A and B divisions in the first week of October. It will only show officers actually transferred to H Division. I don't think there are any bulk transfers (i.e. augmentations) shown in Police Orders until 1 November 1888 when 42 constables were transferred to H Division (PO 31 October 1888). And if you only want transfers in for the period of the Ripper murders, the list will be quite simple to compile.

[The Station Cat]

Well I think the problem there is that it won't tell you those officers sent to H Division as temporary reinforcements in 1888, such as those drafted in from A and B divisions in the first week of October. It will only show officers actually transferred to H Division. I don't think there are any bulk transfers (i.e. augmentations) shown in Police Orders until 1 November 1888 when 42 constables were transferred to H Division (PO 31 October 1888). And if you only want transfers in for the period of the Ripper murders, the list will be quite simple to compile.

Interesting, so if I'm understanding you correctly, sort term transfers aren't documented in police orders, only those sent on a permanent basis? And these don't start until November 1888. And these won't include A&B Divisions? But what about other Divisions?

Has anyone got access to the 1st November orders (42 officers)? I'd very much like to know who they were?


In order to compile a list purely for the Ripper period, how many sets of orders do you think I'll be looking at?

[David Orsam]

Interesting, so if I'm understanding you correctly, sort term transfers aren't documented in police orders, only those sent on a permanent basis? And these don't start until November 1888. And these won't include A&B Divisions? But what about other Divisions?

Has anyone got access to the 1st November orders (42 officers)? I'd very much like to know who they were?


In order to compile a list purely for the Ripper period, how many sets of orders do you think I'll be looking at?

I wouldn't call them "short term transfers", just temporary reinforcements during a period of emergency.

It was reported that following the double event, officers from other divisions (mainly A & B but possibly others) were drafted into Whitechapel by Charles Warren to increase the number of patrols. But this was not a formal augmentation of H Division. None of this is mentioned in Police Orders.

Yes, the first transfers are recorded in PO of 31 October to commence on 1 November.

If you are compiling a list for the Ripper period then you'd have to check the daily POs between 31 October 1888 to, I guess, the end of 1889 but there are, I think, only a few actual large augmentations of H Division in that period so it would not take very long to identify the few POs of interest.

[The Station Cat]

I wouldn't call them "short term transfers", just temporary reinforcements during a period of emergency.

It was reported that following the double event, officers from other divisions (mainly A & B but possibly others) were drafted into Whitechapel by Charles Warren to increase the number of patrols. But this was not a formal augmentation of H Division. None of this is mentioned in Police Orders.

Yes, the first transfers are recorded in PO of 31 October to commence on 1 November.

If you are compiling a list for the Ripper period then you'd have to check the daily POs between 31 October 1888 to, I guess, the end of 1889 but there are, I think, only a few actual large augmentations of H Division in that period so it would not take very long to identify the few POs of interest.

Thanks David, it's all making sense now. I understand now why this hasn't been done before!!

[The Station Cat]

It'll be this lot then I assume....

Transfers to H Division—Police Orders 31st October 1888

From B Division [Chelsea]

B344 to H220 PC 61146 [1st Class] Charles Maguire*
B435 to H295 PC 73700 [3rd Class] Cornelius Lamb

From F Division [Paddington]

F103 to H442 PC 67236 [2nd Class] George Farr
F288 to H463 PC 73773 [3rd Class] Edwin Sturt*

From K Division [Bow]

K216 to H464 PC 73337 [3rd Class] Joseph Bozzett

From S Division [Hampstead]

S633 to H465 PC 57839 [1st Class] Henry Kirby
S554 to H466 PC 73748 [3rd Class] Henry S. C. Barber
S172 to H502 PC 73849 [3rd Class] George Bailey

From T Division [Hammersmith]
T650 to H467 PC 66443 [2nd Class] Arthur Vincent
T510 to H468 PC 68788 [2nd Class] William A. Walker
T602 to H469 PC 70694 [3rd Class] Frederick Lessons
T372 to H470 PC 71125 [3rd Class] William J. Rough
T621 to H471 PC 72933 [3rd Class] William H. Saundery
T250 to H472 PC 73033 [3rd Class] Thomas Jefferson
T651 to H473 PC 73631 [3rd Class] Arthur Waters
T652 to H474 PC 73636 [3rd Class] Albert A. Truelove
T671 to H475 PC 73682 [3rd Class] George Evans
T674 to H476 PC 73715 [3rd Class] Robert Vickers
T680 to H477 PC 73736 [3rd Class] Harry Roffey
T181 to H478 PC 73744 [3rd Class] William J. Gunner
T687 to H479 PC 73764 [3rd Class] William Lewis*
T688 to H480 PC 73769 [3rd Class] Griffith Evans*
T236 to H481 PC 73777 [3rd Class] George Crews
T668 to H482 PC 73778 [3rd Class] Michael Waters
T465 to H483 PC 73785 [3rd Class] Thomas T. Guppy
T679 to H484 PC 73793 [3rd Class] Benjamin C. Ide
T279 to H485 PC 73813 [3rd Class] George M. Ide

From V Division [Wandsworth]

V198 to H486 PC 73442 [3rd Class] William L. Dockery
V585 to H487 PC 59272 [3rd Class] Patrick Rourke
V575 to H488 PC 62860 [2nd Class] Henry Worman
V548 to H489 PC 63165 [1st Class] Edward Ware
V464 to H490 PC 68841 [3rd Class] John Molt
V212 to H491 PC 73016 [3rd Class] Henry Hancock

From X Division [Kilburn]

X479 to H492 PC 67612 [2nd Class] Nicholas Stafford
X478 to H493 PC 72182 [3rd Class] Michael Hudson
[H494 was not assigned at this time]
X463 to H495 PC 73635 [3rd Class] Harry Artiss
X316 to H496 PC 73906 [3rd Class] Charles Phillips*

From Y Division [Highgate]

Y 91 to H497 PC 73685 [3rd Class] Thomas C. Newens
Y401 to H498 PC 73695 [3rd Class] Harry Gibson
Y181 to H499 PC 73721 [3rd Class] John Presswood
Y199 to H500 PC 73834 [3rd Class] John Hamilton
Y624 to H501 PC 73883 [3rd Class] John Garraway






That being said is anyone aware of any other such lists on subsequent dates documented in Police Orders?

[David Orsam]

As I mentioned in the Pinchin Street thread, there is a list of about 101 officers transferred to H Division in Police Orders of 14 September 1889.

[The Station Cat]

As I mentioned in the Pinchin Street thread, there is a list of about 101 officers transferred to H Division in Police Orders of 14 September 1889.

Very interesting!!!! Has anyone got a copy of the list, that they could share?