Hierarchy of Detective Constable

[Barrister]

Colleagues,
I noted that Walter Dew's rank was that of Detective Constable. I assume that places him well above a bobbie, but I am not sure how he fits into the hierarchy. Is he above or below a sergeant, for example? Also, I have a question about John Pizer. According to the A to Z, he was taken into custody on 10 September 1888, but was released on a Tuesday evening. Then, he testified at the Chapman inquest on Wednesday, 11 October. Does that mean he was released on 10 October or earlier? Many thanks from a befuddled yank.

[David Orsam]

Hi Barrister,

Monty is the best person for answering police questions but my answer would be that a detective constable was not, in fact, "well above a bobbie". In Police Orders he would be referred to as, eg. P.C. Smith (C.I.D.), so still a constable and barely increased in status if at all. He would rank below a sergeant.

As for Pizer, you've slightly confused the issue by referring to October! Pizer was arrested on Monday 10 September and then released from custody on Tuesday 11 September. He then appeared to give evidence at the Chapman inquest on Wednesday 12 September.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Barrister,

Today, a Detective Constable (DC) is a police officer who, after two years training, has transferred into a specialist area like the Criminal Investigation Department (CID) or other investigative unit. The rank is not senior to that of a police constable (PC).

I'm not certain what the deal was in 1888. Neil Bell is your go-to guy on this question.

John Pizer was released from police custody at 9.30 pm on 11th September 1888.

Regards,

Simon

[Barrister]

Thanks, Simon. Can you tell me how to reach Neil?

[Simon Wood]

Hi Barrister,

I have sent you a PM.

Regards,

Simon

[Bridewell]

Colleagues,
I noted that Walter Dew's rank was that of Detective Constable. I assume that places him well above a bobbie, but I am not sure how he fits into the hierarchy. Is he above or below a sergeant, for example?

Just to confirm what others have posted already. A Detective Constable (Dc) (formerly Detective Officer or D.O.) holds the same rank (constable) as a Police Constable (Pc). Some Dc's like to pretend that they have been 'promoted to CID'. They haven't. The first promotion is to the sergeant rank.

[Joshua Rogan]

Just out of interest, does a uniformed sergeant have any authority over a detective constable (and vice versa) or can he only give orders to uniformed constables?

[Rosella]

Police sergeants outrank constables, whether detective constables or not. However the detective force has a different chain of command, so I can't see a uniformed sergeant ordering a detective constable about, unless it was a dire emergency, ie the two men being caught under fire somewhere by a gunman or something of that sort.

[Monty]

Just out of interest, does a uniformed sergeant have any authority over a detective constable (and vice versa) or can he only give orders to uniformed constables?

Yes Joshua,

However due to the different natures of uniform and detective work, it's a rarity such situations arise. As Rosella states.

However, when they do, it's common for antagonism to arise between the two.

Barrister,

Got your pm and replied.

Monty

[Joshua Rogan]

Thanks :-)

[Bridewell]

However due to the different natures of uniform and detective work, it's a rarity such situations arise.

I just need to flag up the custody officer position here (admittedly not applicable to the LVP police). All arrested people have to be put before a custody officer (uniform sergeant role) who either does, or does not, authorise detention. This applies equally to uniform and CID arrests. Theoretically a custody sergeant can refuse to authorise the detention of a person arrested by a Detective Chief Superintendent (although it would be a brave custody sergeant who actually did so!) The role is therefore unique in that the custody sergeant, in limited circumstances, has authority over those who outrank him or her.

[Monty]

I just need to flag up the custody officer position here (admittedly not applicable to the LVP police). All arrested people have to be put before a custody officer (uniform sergeant role) who either does, or does not, authorise detention. This applies equally to uniform and CID arrests. Theoretically a custody sergeant can refuse to authorise the detention of a person arrested by a Detective Chief Superintendent (although it would be a brave custody sergeant who actually did so!) The role is therefore unique in that the custody sergeant, in limited circumstances, has authority over those who outrank him or her.

Absolutely Colin, thanks for that.

And it was applicable in the LVP

Monty
😀

[harry]

So what would the position be if an arrested person was refused detention by the custody officer?Would the arrested person be released from arrest?What about a person arrested by a person other than a police officer?

[GUT]

So what would the position be if an arrested person was refused detention by the custody officer?Would the arrested person be released from arrest?What about a person arrested by a person other than a police officer?

Yes if custody officer says no, they walk.

[Bridewell]

Yes if custody officer says no, they walk.

That's correct although the role of a custody officer only became a legal obligation with the Police & Criminal Evidence Act (PACE) 1984. It doesn't often happen (although I did once refuse to authorise detention of someone arrested for Drunk & Disorderly who wasn't drunk!).