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16th January 2006, 03:16 PM
Supt Charles Henry Cutbush was in charge of lodging houses at the time of the murders. AP has found the following items, which Debra will kindly post.
Robert
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Debra A16th January 2006, 05:24 PM
coming soon I promise!
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Debra A16th January 2006, 06:09 PM
98
99
100
101
102
103
done it at last!
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robert16th January 2006, 06:24 PM
Debs, did you do it? I can see P166 down to "demolished."
robert
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apwolf16th January 2006, 06:29 PM
Thank you Debra and Robert
All your efforts much appreciated.
This extract is taken from ‘Leaves of a Life: being the reminiscences of Montagu Williams’ published in London and New York in 1890.
What caught my attention is how the name of the official informant is blanked out, as is the reference to an investigation and murder.
My thinking - which might be flawed I admit but nonetheless worth the effort - is that this might well be a very rare interview with dear old uncle Charles, Executive Superintendent Charles Henry Cutbush of the Executive Department of Scotland Yard and directly in charge of common lodging houses at the time of the interview.
If it is I’ll treat myself to a brandy, if it isn’t I’ll have two!
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ellen16th January 2006, 07:11 PM
Thanks, Debs for your work... But right now, I can only get the 2nd the 6 items. Not sure why, have tried to refresh and even close out the Casebook and reopen. Got any ideas what I need to do so my computer will show them?
Ellen
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ellen16th January 2006, 07:18 PM
Dear AP,
You continue to delight me will all the new items you come up with. I am reading your book (online, thanks to you) and am taking a considerable interest in the senior Cutbush. I meet so many 19th century characters I would never have gotten to know with Jack the Ripper and the East End Studies.
Thanks again,
Ellen
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Debra A16th January 2006, 07:18 PM
Sorry Ellen, I don't really know what you can do, you sound like you have the same problem as Robert though.
I can see all the six images I posted, I am wondering if it is because I posted them!
If anyone else can see all six let me know.( there are six because I split each page in two before Stephen expanded the upload sizes.)
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apwolf16th January 2006, 07:50 PM
Yes, Debra, I get all six images up no problem.
Maybe Robert should try brandy?
Thanks Ellen, for your positive comments, always welcome.
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eddie16th January 2006, 08:08 PM
Debra
I can't see any of them. I'm not to good with computers. I'll wait and see if anyone knows what to do
Yours Truly
Werewolf
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Natalie Severn16th January 2006, 08:41 PM
Hi AP,
Fascinated by this interview.The Victoria Home seems to have been a relatively respectable and well run place by the sound of it.
The whole Cutbush saga is working currently for me.
When I was posting on the Hanbury Street thread last night I was again reminded of the way the back yard of Hanbury Street with its fences on all sides, rather than any apparent ways out from that yard would have held no obstacles for the champion wall and fence vaulter ,Thomas Cutbush!Sounds unimportant but if you are that much of an athlete the risks taken seem slightly lessened.Thanks also Debra and Robert.
Natalie
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Debra A16th January 2006, 08:55 PM
Hi Natalie, that means you can see the images too so that's good.
I agree about the Victoria Home being strictly run, at least at the time the book was written in 1890, in fact in a later edition of the book AP found these in (1891), Montagu Williams actually lists the strict rules that were applied at the home although he gives it's name as 'Victoria House' it's address is given as the corner of Commercial and Wentworth Street.
It says locking up time was 1am, I wonder if it was the same in 1888 when GH was staying there.
Maybe I should post up those rules on a separate thread.
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apwolf16th January 2006, 09:35 PM
Yes, Natalie, the superhuman feats of Thomas Cutbush are of great interest, in that regard you will be pleased to hear that I have found an exhaustive study from the period in regard to lunatics - of the same age as Thomas and many with a similar background - which does show that such physical and mental agility was not at all unusual for this type of 'lunatic'.
They were certainly fast on their feet, and quick with their 'half' wits.
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Natalie Severn16th January 2006, 10:18 PM
Thanks Debra-I would love to see the list of House Rules if thats possible.
Ap,I dont believe Thomas was a half wit!I think he knew exactly how to play everybody off -mother and aunt were the ones at their wits end seeing him arrive back from his nightly "unaccounted for" absences covered in mud...mud?
And dont forget the young couple in Camden Town who felt so sorry for this poor, distressed young man and fell for his story.Quite a plausible chap in certain situations.
Not so charming though if you happened to be his doctor turning round and finding his knife at your throat or an elderly man who dared crack a bit of a joke at his expense and ended up left for dead at the bottom of a flight of stairs.
Natalie
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apwolf16th January 2006, 10:36 PM
Quite right, Natalie
we must never ignore the obvious.
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rclack21st January 2006, 06:28 PM
Hi all,
The following extract and list is from "Dicken's Dictionary of London 1888".
I think the list was posted on the previous boards but not the extract. The list is only of the Metroploitan Police area and so does not include Lodging Houses in the City Police area like 'Bullers' in New Street.
LODGING HOUSES (COMMON)
Every establishment of this kind throughout the metropolis is now under direct and continual police supervision; every room being inspected and measured before occupation, a placard being hung up in each stating the number of beds for which it is licensed, calculated upon the basis of a minimum allowance of space for each person. Every bed, moreover, has to be furnished weekly with a complete supply of fresh linen, whilst careful provision is made for the ventilation of the rooms, the windows of which are also thrown open throughout the house at 10 a.m.
In its way there are few things more striking, than the comparative sweetness of these dormitories, even when crowded with tramps and thieves of the lowest class. The common sitting-rooms on the ground floor are not, it must be confessed, always equally above reproach. In all cases the men's and women's dormitories are separate; rooms devoted to married couples being partitioned off in the fashion of the old square-pewed churches, and into separate pens upon about the same scale. The mixed lodging-houses - or those at which both sexes are received - are comparatively few, the general practice being for each house to confine itself to one class. All have a common sitting-room on the ground floor, with a fire at which the lodgers can cook their victuals. In a few instances these supplies can be obtained in the house itself.
About the best sample of this kind of establishment extant will be found at St. George's Chambers, St. George's Street, London Docks (vulgo, Ratcliff Highway), a thorough poor man's hotel, where a comfortable bed, with use of sitting-room, cooking apparatus and fire, and laundry accommodation (soap included) can be had for 4d. a night; all kinds of provisions being obtainable in the bar at proportionate rates. To anyone interested in the condition of the London poor, this establishment is well worth a journey to the East End to visit. On the other hand, the following is a list of streets or places in the metropolis in which common lodging houses of the lower class are situate:
Police Division A
Artillery Row, Westminster
Dacre Street, Westminster
Great Peter Street, Westminster
Great Smith Street, Westminster
Old Pye Street, Westminster
St Ann Street, Westminster
Strutton Ground, Westminster
Police Division B
Cheyne Row, Chelsea
Church Street, Chelsea
Kepple Street, Chelsea
Lawrence Street, Chelsea
Pimlico Road, Chelsea
Turk's Row, Chelsea
Police Division C
Castle Street, St Martin's
George Yard, St Anne's, Soho
Litchfield Street, St Anne's, Soho
St Martin's Street, St Martin's
Whitcomb Street, St Martin's
Police Division D
Barrett's Court, St Marylebone
Bell Street, St Marylebone
Circus Street, St Marylebone
Gee's Court, St Marylebone
Little Grove Street, St Marylebone
Molyneux Street, St Marylebone
Whitfield Place, St Marylebone
Police Division E
Betterton Street, St Giles
Black Horse Yard, St Giles
Dyott Street, St Giles
Kemble Street, St Giles
Kennedy Court, St Giles
Macklin Street, St Giles
Maras Buildings, St Giles
Newton Street, St Giles
Parker Street, St Giles
Queen Street, St Giles
Short's Gardens, St Giles
Fulwood's Rents, Holborn
Took's Court, Holborn
Charlotte Place, St Pancras
Euston Road, St Pancras
Market Street, St Pancras
Tonbrige Street, St Pancras
New Church Court, St Mary-le-Strand
Drury Lane, St Clement Danes
Gilbert Passage, St Clement Danes
Holles Street, St Clement Danes
Sardinia Street, St Clement Danes
Vere Street, St Clement Danes
Wych Street, St Clement Danes
Hanover Court, St Martins
Harvey's Buildings, St Martins
Langley Court, St Martins
Lumley Court, St Martins
Police Division F
Blenheim Crescent, Kensington
Clarendon Road, Kensington
High Street, Kensington
Peel Street, Kensington
Edgware Road, Paddington
Queen's Road, Paddington
Police Division G
Banner Street, St Luke's
Dufferin Street, St Luke's
Golden Lane, St Luke's
Great Arthur Street, St Luke's
Greenarbour Court, St Luke's
Middle Row, St Luke's
New Court, St Luke's
Twister Alley, St Luke's
Brooke Street, Holborn
Great Saffron Hill, Holborn
Greville Street, Holborn
Holborn Buildings, Holborn
Portpool Lane, Holborn
Vine Street, Holborn
Clerkenwell Close, Clerkenwell
Clerkenwell Green, Clerkenwell
Cyrus Street, Clerkenwell
Hermes Hill, Clerkenwell
Pentonville Road, Clerkenwell
Alexandra Buildings, Shoreditch
Craven Street, Shoreditch
Dunloe Street, Shoreditch
Hoxton Street, Shoreditch
Kingsland Road, Shoreditch
Market Street, Shoreditch
Scrutton Street, Shoreditch
Cow Cross Street, St Sepulchre
St John Street, St Sepulchre
Gray's Inn Road, St Pancras
York Road, Islington
Police Division H
Brick Lane, Christchurch
Brushfield Street, Christchurch
Dorset Street, Christchurch
Flower and Dean Street, Christchurch
George Street, Christchurch
Hanbury Street, Christchurch
Heneage Street, Christchurch
Keate Street, Christchurch
Mount Street, Christchurch
Paternoster Row, Christchurch
Pearl Street, Christchurch
Princes Street, Christchurch
Thrawl Street, Christchurch
Wentworth Street, Christchurch
Wheeler Street, Christchurch
White's Row, Christchurch
Church Street, Bethnal Green
Nicoll's Row, Bethnal Green
White Street, Bethnal Green
Bull Street, Whitechapel
Dock Street, Whitechapel
Grace's Alley, Whitechapel
Leman Street, Whitechapel
Osborne Place, Whitechapel
Well Street, Whitechapel
Wellclose Square, Whitechapel
Boundary Street, Shoreditch
Hare Alley, Shoreditch
Gun Street, Old Artillery Ground
Cable Street, St George's-in-the-East
Nort East Passage, St George's-in-the-East
Pell Street, St George's-in-the-East
Princess Square, St George's-in-the-East
Ratcliff Street, St George's-in-the-East
Ship Alley, St George's-in-the-East
St George's Street, St George's-in-the-East
Broad Street, Ratcliff
London Street, Ratcliff
Narrow Street, Ratcliff
Stepney Causeway, Ratcliff
Baroda Place, Shadwell
Cable Street, Shadwell
High Street, Shadwell
King David's Lane, Shadwell
Commercial Road, Mile End Old Town
Greenfield Street, Mile End Old Town
Lady Lake's Grove, Mile End Old Town
Lucas Street, Mile End Old Town
Turner Street, Mile End Old Town
East Smithfield, Wapping
St George's Street, Wapping
Upper Well Alley, Wapping
Police Division J
Bethnal Green Road, Bethnal Green
Globe Road, Bethnal Green
Pritchard's Road, Bethnal Green
High Street, Hackney
Sylvester Road, Hackney
Dunston Street, Shoreditch
Police Division K
St Ann Street, Limehouse
West India Road, Limehouse
Medland Street, Ratcliff
Stepney Causeway, Ratcliff
East India Dock Road, Poplar
Emmet Street, Poplar
Finch Street, Poplar
High Street, Poplar
Manchester Road, Poplar
Pennifields, Poplar
Bow Road, Bow
Burdett Road, Bow
Albert Road, North Woolwich
Police Division L
Broadwall, Christchurch
Collingwood Street, Christchurch
Great Charlotte Street, Christchurch
Stamford Street, Christchurch
Belvedere Road, Lambeth
Broadwall, Lambeth
Cox's Buildings, Lambeth
Granby Place, Lambeth
Hooper Street, Lambeth
Kennington Road, Lambeth
Lambeth Walk, Lambeth
Paradise Street, Lambeth
Tower Street, Lambeth
Gray Street, St George's
Webber Row, St George's
Camberwell Road, Camberwell
Princes Street, Newington
Walworth Road, Newington
Police Division M
Collier's Rents, Southwark
George Street, Southwark
Harrow Street, Southwark
Mint Street, Southwark
Orange Street, Southwark
Queen Street, Southwark
Red Cross Square, Southwark
Red Cross Street, Southwark
Tabard Street, Southwark
Union Street, Southwark
Gravel Lane, Rotherhithe
Princes Street, Rotherhithe
Bermondsey Road, Bermondsey
Long Walk, Bermondsey
Police Division N
Islington Green, Islington
New North Road, Islington
Police Division P
Church Street, Camberwell
Lordship Lane, Camberwell
Meeting House Lane, Camberwell
Old Kent Road, Camberwell
Peckham High Street, Camberwell
East Street, Newington
Lewisham High Street, Lewisham
Arpley Road, Battersea
Police Division R
Baildon Street, Deptford
Church Street, Deptford
Gove Street, Deptford
Mill Lane, Deptford
New King Street, Deptford
Watergate Street, Deptford
Canon Row, Woolwich
High Street, Lower End, Woolwich
Market Hill, Woolwich
Nile Street, Woolwich
Rope Yard Rails, Woolwich
Police Division S
Bank Buildings, Hampstead
Brewhouse Lane, Hampstead
Hampstead Road, Hampstead
Holly Mount, Hampstead
Police Division T
Brook Green Place, Hammersmith
King Street, Hammersmith
Queen Street, Hammersmith
Greyhounds Road, Fulham
King's Road, Fulham
Stamford Road, Fulham
Gayford Road, Starch Green
Police Division V
Church Row, Wandsworth
Grottan Road, Wandsworth
Iron Mill Road, Wandsworth
Princes Place, Wandsworth
Clarence Terrace, Battersea
High Street, Battersea
Usk Road, Battersea
Police Division W
New Park Road, Lambeth
Railton Road, Lambeth
Vauxhall, Lambeth
Wandsworth Road, Lambeth
Police Division X
Church Place, Chelsea
Falcon Terrace, Chelsea
Kensal Road, Chelsea
Latimer Road, Hammersmith
Norland Road, Hammersmith
St Ann's Road, Hammersmith
Bangor Street, Kensington
Bramley Road, Kensington
Clement Road, Kensington
Crescent Street, Kensington
Hesketh Place, Kensington
Mary Place, Kensington
Portobello Road, Kensington
St Clement's Road, Kensington
Walmer Road, Kensington
Wormington Road, Kensington
Clarendon Street, Paddington
Police Division Y
Gordon Place, Highgate
Queensland Road, Holloway
Eve Place, St Giles's
Pancras Road, St Giles's
Circus Road, St Pancras
Harmood Street, St Pancras
Litcham Road, St Pancras
Pratt Street, St Pancras
Prince of Wales' Road, St Pancras
Rochford Street, St Pancras
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robert21st January 2006, 06:43 PM
Thanks very much for that, Rob.
Robert
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judyj22nd January 2006, 01:49 AM
Hi
If you are referring to the six text pages, I do see them all, however you threw me off when you said images, which I assumed were pictures.
If not pictures, just text pages, Yes I see all six
regards
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Debra A22nd January 2006, 08:33 AM
Hi Julie
yes, when I said images I am referring to the images of the 6 pages of text, not pictures, glad you can see them anyway.
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robert5th August 2006, 10:23 PM
These two scans, which I've shrunk for Board reasons, were kindly supplied by Grey Hunter.
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apwolf5th August 2006, 10:58 PM
Nicely done, Robert, and my thanks to Grey for the fine images.
Probably the only senior police officer in the entire history of the English police force who was signing documents involving the murder of women in which his nephew was a prime suspect.
I kinda like that.
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Natalie Severn5th August 2006, 11:30 PM
Terrific....thanks to all for this but especially to Grey Hunter for allowing us sight of it
Natalie
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apwolf6th October 2006, 08:50 PM
On the 8th October 1888 Charles Warren indicated to his superiors that he would be communicating with a supposed accomplice of the Whitechapel Murderer through the medium of classified advertising.
On the 9th October 1888 the following appeared in the classified section of The Times:
'Metropolitan Police - Found, about middle of August last, in Pimlico, a gold ring. Apply Superintendent Executive Branch, Great Scotland Yard.'
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apwolf3rd February 2007, 04:18 PM
I'm reposting this little clipping from 1896 concerning the death of Charles Henry Cutbush as it has just occured to me that the portrait photograph on the left might well be Charles Henry Cutbush; and that a copy of said photograph might be obtainable?
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apwolf3rd February 2007, 04:25 PM
Sorry, the clipping went west, hopefully it is here now:
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robert3rd February 2007, 04:39 PM
Hi AP
If this is an article from the Morning Leader originally, then which newspaper is this? (We'd need to know that if we wanted to get at the picture)
Robert
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apwolf3rd February 2007, 06:26 PM
To my shame, Robert, I have lost the original and now only have a photo copy, but I sourced it years ago from the Black Sheep Index, and there were only two reports on Charles Henry Cutbush.
I have tried to access the site but I have problems with pdf files and can't get in there, but I'm quite sure the original reference to the newspaper concerned will come up if you get in there.
Was it the 'Police Budget' or something like that?
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robert3rd February 2007, 06:52 PM
AP, no, it doesn't give the newspaper.
I'm sure I remember you saying something about Liverpool, though whether that's the origin of the newspaper, or the location of the man who runs the site, I don't know.
Robert
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dannorder3rd February 2007, 09:43 PM
From the placement of the photo and the article, my guess is that the image was illustrating some other article. From what we can tell from the snippit here, it looks like it would have taken up at least 2 columns width-wise, if not more. Typical page design of the time would lead me to believe it's meant to accompany the text two columns or more to the left and a bit up. It would be exceptional that an illustration for a short article in a third or later column would be that big and that far to the left.
But, still, if you think you can turn the original up it'd be worth checking.
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apwolf3rd February 2007, 10:09 PM
god, I hate it when you are right Dan.
I've just found the original document and the portrait is 'from a photograph by WH Horlington, South Shields' and is a portrait of Chief Inspector Patterson.
So no Cutbush there.
Well done Dan.
I also note that in the original document the 'Jury returned a verdict of suicide whilst insane'.
Well, at last, official confirmation that Executive Superintendent Cutbush of Scotland Yard was insane.
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dannorder3rd February 2007, 10:26 PM
Hi AP,
It would have been remarkable for the conclusion in a suicide to be something other than insanity. I believe suicide was considered the sort of sin that would have prevented use of a typical burial plot, so verdicts routinely assumed that they were done in the midst of temporary insanity for the sake of reputation and so forth. That alone shouldn't be taken to mean that he expressed any insanity at any earlier point.
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apwolf3rd February 2007, 10:55 PM
Point taken Dan
but the Catholics poisoning his drinking water does give cause for concern though.
And was it normal for an 'executive' superintendent of Scotland Yard to carry a revolver?
I've been reliably informed that Charles Henry Cutbush was a 'paper pusher' at the end of his career, so why the service pistol?
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halomanuk20th February 2007, 01:45 PM
Hi all ,
Does anyone think that if Cutbush owned lodging houses,and as it has been mentioned before that Catharine Eddowes was attempting to meet the Ripper to blackmail him because she knew his identity,could this be the myterious 29 Aldgate High Street that some Ripperologists believe she was heading before she was arrested ??
If so ,then maybe Supt Cuthbush knew more than he let on and Thomas Cutbush was there and ready to strike ?
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robert20th February 2007, 02:39 PM
Hi Barry
Number 29 is a bit of a red herring, I'm afraid - see AP's post April 21st 2003.
http://www.casebook.org/forum/messages/4921/5991.html (http://www.casebook.org/forum/messages/4921/5991.html)
Robert
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rjpalmer6th October 2007, 03:45 PM
I'd be curious to know how many senior officers at the Met belonged to the "Protestant Truth Society." Anderson was a member. Was Cutbush?
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Natalie Severn6th October 2007, 08:22 PM
I'd be curious to know how many senior officers at the Met belonged to the "Protestant Truth Society." Anderson was a member. Was Cutbush?
Since in his political life Anderson was often a total stranger to the truth - self-confessedly so, the Society"s title doesnt exactly inspire confidence in its credibility does it?
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rjpalmer6th October 2007, 09:23 PM
Natalie -- No, I suppose not. It's interesting, though. The man aim of the group appears to have been to combat 'ritualism' in the C of E and other Protestant sects. Up to, and including, storming church services. We know that Anderson belonged to the PTS, and Charles Cutbush seems to have been cut from the same cloth. Chief Inspector Littlechild, as mentioned in Evans and Rumbelow's new book, excluded Roman Catholics in a clause in his will. (One wonders, though, if he might have had a specific bloke in mind. He seems to have got on well enough with Inspector Melville, who was Catholic).
I'm not sure how this would necessarily help our understanding of the Whitechapel Murders, except that there was a sort of general Imperial and Unionist attitude at Scotland Yard that might have coloured certain aspects of their investigation.
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Natalie Severn6th October 2007, 11:10 PM
Well it was certainly the case, RJ, that at least two senior policemen were dire enemies of the Irish cause:Sir Robert Anderson and Sir Melville Macnaghten. Sir Robert had been the Home Office expert on Fenians and the thwarting of Home Rule and had nominal charge of the Ripper investigation from October 6th 1888 and Macnaghten was an Orangeman and descended from one of the original Prentice boys of Derry according to Martin Fido.James Monro appears to have also been totally committed to anti Fenian activities as head of the secret Irish department and Supt.Charles Cutbush was reported in his orbituary to have harboured paranoid delusions about Catholics trying to poison his water supply.And they are just a few of the senior policemen-other such as Sir Charles Warren were committed Freemasons who have been linked historically with the Orange Lodges and we havent even begun yet to look closely at the politicians like Lord Randolph Churchill and Lord Salisbury who were fierce supporters of Unionism and the Orange men.
Where it becomes intriguing from the point of view of the Whitechapel murders is Macnaghten"s reported belief that the Ripper was a leader of a plot to assassinate Mr Balfour at the Irish office.Why Balfour? Apparently he is supposed to be the originator of the Irish "shoot to kill" policy,apparently confirmed in a telegram sent by the Divisional Magistrate for Cork, reading," Deal very summarily with any organised resistance to lawful authority.If necessary do not hesitate to shoot".
In this context James Monro"s following remarks in his personal memoirs give much pause for thought viz."The Fenians.....resolved to inaugerate a system of asssassination of eminent persons,Mr Balfour ,especially to be carried out by Irish men NOT Irish Americans.The agent chosen for this rascality was JS Walsh,a resident of Brooklyn and a well known ruffian who had been concerned with the Phoenix Park murder."
Finally, James Monro regarded, "The whole affair of the Whitechapel murders of 1888 as a very[political] hot potato", a remark that has led to speculation about whether the Ripper was part of a plot to discredit and distract the British Police and politicians.
If this were to be so, then I believe we may need to look as well,at whether the victims themselves had in anyway brought the Ripper"s wrath upon themselves----was Elizabeth Stride outside the IWEA as an "informer" [ the IWEA were sympathisers with the Irish Nationalist cause long before Michael Davitt became associated with Berner street"s political activities in 1891].Had Catherine Eddowes an "assignment" with the Ripper that day that led to her death?Was she too perhaps an informer?
Best
Natalie
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16th January 2006, 03:16 PM
Supt Charles Henry Cutbush was in charge of lodging houses at the time of the murders. AP has found the following items, which Debra will kindly post.
Robert
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Debra A16th January 2006, 05:24 PM
coming soon I promise!
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Debra A16th January 2006, 06:09 PM
98
99
100
101
102
103
done it at last!
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robert16th January 2006, 06:24 PM
Debs, did you do it? I can see P166 down to "demolished."
robert
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apwolf16th January 2006, 06:29 PM
Thank you Debra and Robert
All your efforts much appreciated.
This extract is taken from ‘Leaves of a Life: being the reminiscences of Montagu Williams’ published in London and New York in 1890.
What caught my attention is how the name of the official informant is blanked out, as is the reference to an investigation and murder.
My thinking - which might be flawed I admit but nonetheless worth the effort - is that this might well be a very rare interview with dear old uncle Charles, Executive Superintendent Charles Henry Cutbush of the Executive Department of Scotland Yard and directly in charge of common lodging houses at the time of the interview.
If it is I’ll treat myself to a brandy, if it isn’t I’ll have two!
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ellen16th January 2006, 07:11 PM
Thanks, Debs for your work... But right now, I can only get the 2nd the 6 items. Not sure why, have tried to refresh and even close out the Casebook and reopen. Got any ideas what I need to do so my computer will show them?
Ellen
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ellen16th January 2006, 07:18 PM
Dear AP,
You continue to delight me will all the new items you come up with. I am reading your book (online, thanks to you) and am taking a considerable interest in the senior Cutbush. I meet so many 19th century characters I would never have gotten to know with Jack the Ripper and the East End Studies.
Thanks again,
Ellen
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Debra A16th January 2006, 07:18 PM
Sorry Ellen, I don't really know what you can do, you sound like you have the same problem as Robert though.
I can see all the six images I posted, I am wondering if it is because I posted them!
If anyone else can see all six let me know.( there are six because I split each page in two before Stephen expanded the upload sizes.)
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apwolf16th January 2006, 07:50 PM
Yes, Debra, I get all six images up no problem.
Maybe Robert should try brandy?
Thanks Ellen, for your positive comments, always welcome.
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eddie16th January 2006, 08:08 PM
Debra
I can't see any of them. I'm not to good with computers. I'll wait and see if anyone knows what to do
Yours Truly
Werewolf
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Natalie Severn16th January 2006, 08:41 PM
Hi AP,
Fascinated by this interview.The Victoria Home seems to have been a relatively respectable and well run place by the sound of it.
The whole Cutbush saga is working currently for me.
When I was posting on the Hanbury Street thread last night I was again reminded of the way the back yard of Hanbury Street with its fences on all sides, rather than any apparent ways out from that yard would have held no obstacles for the champion wall and fence vaulter ,Thomas Cutbush!Sounds unimportant but if you are that much of an athlete the risks taken seem slightly lessened.Thanks also Debra and Robert.
Natalie
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Debra A16th January 2006, 08:55 PM
Hi Natalie, that means you can see the images too so that's good.
I agree about the Victoria Home being strictly run, at least at the time the book was written in 1890, in fact in a later edition of the book AP found these in (1891), Montagu Williams actually lists the strict rules that were applied at the home although he gives it's name as 'Victoria House' it's address is given as the corner of Commercial and Wentworth Street.
It says locking up time was 1am, I wonder if it was the same in 1888 when GH was staying there.
Maybe I should post up those rules on a separate thread.
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apwolf16th January 2006, 09:35 PM
Yes, Natalie, the superhuman feats of Thomas Cutbush are of great interest, in that regard you will be pleased to hear that I have found an exhaustive study from the period in regard to lunatics - of the same age as Thomas and many with a similar background - which does show that such physical and mental agility was not at all unusual for this type of 'lunatic'.
They were certainly fast on their feet, and quick with their 'half' wits.
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Natalie Severn16th January 2006, 10:18 PM
Thanks Debra-I would love to see the list of House Rules if thats possible.
Ap,I dont believe Thomas was a half wit!I think he knew exactly how to play everybody off -mother and aunt were the ones at their wits end seeing him arrive back from his nightly "unaccounted for" absences covered in mud...mud?
And dont forget the young couple in Camden Town who felt so sorry for this poor, distressed young man and fell for his story.Quite a plausible chap in certain situations.
Not so charming though if you happened to be his doctor turning round and finding his knife at your throat or an elderly man who dared crack a bit of a joke at his expense and ended up left for dead at the bottom of a flight of stairs.
Natalie
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apwolf16th January 2006, 10:36 PM
Quite right, Natalie
we must never ignore the obvious.
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rclack21st January 2006, 06:28 PM
Hi all,
The following extract and list is from "Dicken's Dictionary of London 1888".
I think the list was posted on the previous boards but not the extract. The list is only of the Metroploitan Police area and so does not include Lodging Houses in the City Police area like 'Bullers' in New Street.
LODGING HOUSES (COMMON)
Every establishment of this kind throughout the metropolis is now under direct and continual police supervision; every room being inspected and measured before occupation, a placard being hung up in each stating the number of beds for which it is licensed, calculated upon the basis of a minimum allowance of space for each person. Every bed, moreover, has to be furnished weekly with a complete supply of fresh linen, whilst careful provision is made for the ventilation of the rooms, the windows of which are also thrown open throughout the house at 10 a.m.
In its way there are few things more striking, than the comparative sweetness of these dormitories, even when crowded with tramps and thieves of the lowest class. The common sitting-rooms on the ground floor are not, it must be confessed, always equally above reproach. In all cases the men's and women's dormitories are separate; rooms devoted to married couples being partitioned off in the fashion of the old square-pewed churches, and into separate pens upon about the same scale. The mixed lodging-houses - or those at which both sexes are received - are comparatively few, the general practice being for each house to confine itself to one class. All have a common sitting-room on the ground floor, with a fire at which the lodgers can cook their victuals. In a few instances these supplies can be obtained in the house itself.
About the best sample of this kind of establishment extant will be found at St. George's Chambers, St. George's Street, London Docks (vulgo, Ratcliff Highway), a thorough poor man's hotel, where a comfortable bed, with use of sitting-room, cooking apparatus and fire, and laundry accommodation (soap included) can be had for 4d. a night; all kinds of provisions being obtainable in the bar at proportionate rates. To anyone interested in the condition of the London poor, this establishment is well worth a journey to the East End to visit. On the other hand, the following is a list of streets or places in the metropolis in which common lodging houses of the lower class are situate:
Police Division A
Artillery Row, Westminster
Dacre Street, Westminster
Great Peter Street, Westminster
Great Smith Street, Westminster
Old Pye Street, Westminster
St Ann Street, Westminster
Strutton Ground, Westminster
Police Division B
Cheyne Row, Chelsea
Church Street, Chelsea
Kepple Street, Chelsea
Lawrence Street, Chelsea
Pimlico Road, Chelsea
Turk's Row, Chelsea
Police Division C
Castle Street, St Martin's
George Yard, St Anne's, Soho
Litchfield Street, St Anne's, Soho
St Martin's Street, St Martin's
Whitcomb Street, St Martin's
Police Division D
Barrett's Court, St Marylebone
Bell Street, St Marylebone
Circus Street, St Marylebone
Gee's Court, St Marylebone
Little Grove Street, St Marylebone
Molyneux Street, St Marylebone
Whitfield Place, St Marylebone
Police Division E
Betterton Street, St Giles
Black Horse Yard, St Giles
Dyott Street, St Giles
Kemble Street, St Giles
Kennedy Court, St Giles
Macklin Street, St Giles
Maras Buildings, St Giles
Newton Street, St Giles
Parker Street, St Giles
Queen Street, St Giles
Short's Gardens, St Giles
Fulwood's Rents, Holborn
Took's Court, Holborn
Charlotte Place, St Pancras
Euston Road, St Pancras
Market Street, St Pancras
Tonbrige Street, St Pancras
New Church Court, St Mary-le-Strand
Drury Lane, St Clement Danes
Gilbert Passage, St Clement Danes
Holles Street, St Clement Danes
Sardinia Street, St Clement Danes
Vere Street, St Clement Danes
Wych Street, St Clement Danes
Hanover Court, St Martins
Harvey's Buildings, St Martins
Langley Court, St Martins
Lumley Court, St Martins
Police Division F
Blenheim Crescent, Kensington
Clarendon Road, Kensington
High Street, Kensington
Peel Street, Kensington
Edgware Road, Paddington
Queen's Road, Paddington
Police Division G
Banner Street, St Luke's
Dufferin Street, St Luke's
Golden Lane, St Luke's
Great Arthur Street, St Luke's
Greenarbour Court, St Luke's
Middle Row, St Luke's
New Court, St Luke's
Twister Alley, St Luke's
Brooke Street, Holborn
Great Saffron Hill, Holborn
Greville Street, Holborn
Holborn Buildings, Holborn
Portpool Lane, Holborn
Vine Street, Holborn
Clerkenwell Close, Clerkenwell
Clerkenwell Green, Clerkenwell
Cyrus Street, Clerkenwell
Hermes Hill, Clerkenwell
Pentonville Road, Clerkenwell
Alexandra Buildings, Shoreditch
Craven Street, Shoreditch
Dunloe Street, Shoreditch
Hoxton Street, Shoreditch
Kingsland Road, Shoreditch
Market Street, Shoreditch
Scrutton Street, Shoreditch
Cow Cross Street, St Sepulchre
St John Street, St Sepulchre
Gray's Inn Road, St Pancras
York Road, Islington
Police Division H
Brick Lane, Christchurch
Brushfield Street, Christchurch
Dorset Street, Christchurch
Flower and Dean Street, Christchurch
George Street, Christchurch
Hanbury Street, Christchurch
Heneage Street, Christchurch
Keate Street, Christchurch
Mount Street, Christchurch
Paternoster Row, Christchurch
Pearl Street, Christchurch
Princes Street, Christchurch
Thrawl Street, Christchurch
Wentworth Street, Christchurch
Wheeler Street, Christchurch
White's Row, Christchurch
Church Street, Bethnal Green
Nicoll's Row, Bethnal Green
White Street, Bethnal Green
Bull Street, Whitechapel
Dock Street, Whitechapel
Grace's Alley, Whitechapel
Leman Street, Whitechapel
Osborne Place, Whitechapel
Well Street, Whitechapel
Wellclose Square, Whitechapel
Boundary Street, Shoreditch
Hare Alley, Shoreditch
Gun Street, Old Artillery Ground
Cable Street, St George's-in-the-East
Nort East Passage, St George's-in-the-East
Pell Street, St George's-in-the-East
Princess Square, St George's-in-the-East
Ratcliff Street, St George's-in-the-East
Ship Alley, St George's-in-the-East
St George's Street, St George's-in-the-East
Broad Street, Ratcliff
London Street, Ratcliff
Narrow Street, Ratcliff
Stepney Causeway, Ratcliff
Baroda Place, Shadwell
Cable Street, Shadwell
High Street, Shadwell
King David's Lane, Shadwell
Commercial Road, Mile End Old Town
Greenfield Street, Mile End Old Town
Lady Lake's Grove, Mile End Old Town
Lucas Street, Mile End Old Town
Turner Street, Mile End Old Town
East Smithfield, Wapping
St George's Street, Wapping
Upper Well Alley, Wapping
Police Division J
Bethnal Green Road, Bethnal Green
Globe Road, Bethnal Green
Pritchard's Road, Bethnal Green
High Street, Hackney
Sylvester Road, Hackney
Dunston Street, Shoreditch
Police Division K
St Ann Street, Limehouse
West India Road, Limehouse
Medland Street, Ratcliff
Stepney Causeway, Ratcliff
East India Dock Road, Poplar
Emmet Street, Poplar
Finch Street, Poplar
High Street, Poplar
Manchester Road, Poplar
Pennifields, Poplar
Bow Road, Bow
Burdett Road, Bow
Albert Road, North Woolwich
Police Division L
Broadwall, Christchurch
Collingwood Street, Christchurch
Great Charlotte Street, Christchurch
Stamford Street, Christchurch
Belvedere Road, Lambeth
Broadwall, Lambeth
Cox's Buildings, Lambeth
Granby Place, Lambeth
Hooper Street, Lambeth
Kennington Road, Lambeth
Lambeth Walk, Lambeth
Paradise Street, Lambeth
Tower Street, Lambeth
Gray Street, St George's
Webber Row, St George's
Camberwell Road, Camberwell
Princes Street, Newington
Walworth Road, Newington
Police Division M
Collier's Rents, Southwark
George Street, Southwark
Harrow Street, Southwark
Mint Street, Southwark
Orange Street, Southwark
Queen Street, Southwark
Red Cross Square, Southwark
Red Cross Street, Southwark
Tabard Street, Southwark
Union Street, Southwark
Gravel Lane, Rotherhithe
Princes Street, Rotherhithe
Bermondsey Road, Bermondsey
Long Walk, Bermondsey
Police Division N
Islington Green, Islington
New North Road, Islington
Police Division P
Church Street, Camberwell
Lordship Lane, Camberwell
Meeting House Lane, Camberwell
Old Kent Road, Camberwell
Peckham High Street, Camberwell
East Street, Newington
Lewisham High Street, Lewisham
Arpley Road, Battersea
Police Division R
Baildon Street, Deptford
Church Street, Deptford
Gove Street, Deptford
Mill Lane, Deptford
New King Street, Deptford
Watergate Street, Deptford
Canon Row, Woolwich
High Street, Lower End, Woolwich
Market Hill, Woolwich
Nile Street, Woolwich
Rope Yard Rails, Woolwich
Police Division S
Bank Buildings, Hampstead
Brewhouse Lane, Hampstead
Hampstead Road, Hampstead
Holly Mount, Hampstead
Police Division T
Brook Green Place, Hammersmith
King Street, Hammersmith
Queen Street, Hammersmith
Greyhounds Road, Fulham
King's Road, Fulham
Stamford Road, Fulham
Gayford Road, Starch Green
Police Division V
Church Row, Wandsworth
Grottan Road, Wandsworth
Iron Mill Road, Wandsworth
Princes Place, Wandsworth
Clarence Terrace, Battersea
High Street, Battersea
Usk Road, Battersea
Police Division W
New Park Road, Lambeth
Railton Road, Lambeth
Vauxhall, Lambeth
Wandsworth Road, Lambeth
Police Division X
Church Place, Chelsea
Falcon Terrace, Chelsea
Kensal Road, Chelsea
Latimer Road, Hammersmith
Norland Road, Hammersmith
St Ann's Road, Hammersmith
Bangor Street, Kensington
Bramley Road, Kensington
Clement Road, Kensington
Crescent Street, Kensington
Hesketh Place, Kensington
Mary Place, Kensington
Portobello Road, Kensington
St Clement's Road, Kensington
Walmer Road, Kensington
Wormington Road, Kensington
Clarendon Street, Paddington
Police Division Y
Gordon Place, Highgate
Queensland Road, Holloway
Eve Place, St Giles's
Pancras Road, St Giles's
Circus Road, St Pancras
Harmood Street, St Pancras
Litcham Road, St Pancras
Pratt Street, St Pancras
Prince of Wales' Road, St Pancras
Rochford Street, St Pancras
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robert21st January 2006, 06:43 PM
Thanks very much for that, Rob.
Robert
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judyj22nd January 2006, 01:49 AM
Hi
If you are referring to the six text pages, I do see them all, however you threw me off when you said images, which I assumed were pictures.
If not pictures, just text pages, Yes I see all six
regards
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Debra A22nd January 2006, 08:33 AM
Hi Julie
yes, when I said images I am referring to the images of the 6 pages of text, not pictures, glad you can see them anyway.
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robert5th August 2006, 10:23 PM
These two scans, which I've shrunk for Board reasons, were kindly supplied by Grey Hunter.
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apwolf5th August 2006, 10:58 PM
Nicely done, Robert, and my thanks to Grey for the fine images.
Probably the only senior police officer in the entire history of the English police force who was signing documents involving the murder of women in which his nephew was a prime suspect.
I kinda like that.
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Natalie Severn5th August 2006, 11:30 PM
Terrific....thanks to all for this but especially to Grey Hunter for allowing us sight of it
Natalie
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apwolf6th October 2006, 08:50 PM
On the 8th October 1888 Charles Warren indicated to his superiors that he would be communicating with a supposed accomplice of the Whitechapel Murderer through the medium of classified advertising.
On the 9th October 1888 the following appeared in the classified section of The Times:
'Metropolitan Police - Found, about middle of August last, in Pimlico, a gold ring. Apply Superintendent Executive Branch, Great Scotland Yard.'
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apwolf3rd February 2007, 04:18 PM
I'm reposting this little clipping from 1896 concerning the death of Charles Henry Cutbush as it has just occured to me that the portrait photograph on the left might well be Charles Henry Cutbush; and that a copy of said photograph might be obtainable?
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apwolf3rd February 2007, 04:25 PM
Sorry, the clipping went west, hopefully it is here now:
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robert3rd February 2007, 04:39 PM
Hi AP
If this is an article from the Morning Leader originally, then which newspaper is this? (We'd need to know that if we wanted to get at the picture)
Robert
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apwolf3rd February 2007, 06:26 PM
To my shame, Robert, I have lost the original and now only have a photo copy, but I sourced it years ago from the Black Sheep Index, and there were only two reports on Charles Henry Cutbush.
I have tried to access the site but I have problems with pdf files and can't get in there, but I'm quite sure the original reference to the newspaper concerned will come up if you get in there.
Was it the 'Police Budget' or something like that?
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robert3rd February 2007, 06:52 PM
AP, no, it doesn't give the newspaper.
I'm sure I remember you saying something about Liverpool, though whether that's the origin of the newspaper, or the location of the man who runs the site, I don't know.
Robert
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dannorder3rd February 2007, 09:43 PM
From the placement of the photo and the article, my guess is that the image was illustrating some other article. From what we can tell from the snippit here, it looks like it would have taken up at least 2 columns width-wise, if not more. Typical page design of the time would lead me to believe it's meant to accompany the text two columns or more to the left and a bit up. It would be exceptional that an illustration for a short article in a third or later column would be that big and that far to the left.
But, still, if you think you can turn the original up it'd be worth checking.
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apwolf3rd February 2007, 10:09 PM
god, I hate it when you are right Dan.
I've just found the original document and the portrait is 'from a photograph by WH Horlington, South Shields' and is a portrait of Chief Inspector Patterson.
So no Cutbush there.
Well done Dan.
I also note that in the original document the 'Jury returned a verdict of suicide whilst insane'.
Well, at last, official confirmation that Executive Superintendent Cutbush of Scotland Yard was insane.
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dannorder3rd February 2007, 10:26 PM
Hi AP,
It would have been remarkable for the conclusion in a suicide to be something other than insanity. I believe suicide was considered the sort of sin that would have prevented use of a typical burial plot, so verdicts routinely assumed that they were done in the midst of temporary insanity for the sake of reputation and so forth. That alone shouldn't be taken to mean that he expressed any insanity at any earlier point.
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apwolf3rd February 2007, 10:55 PM
Point taken Dan
but the Catholics poisoning his drinking water does give cause for concern though.
And was it normal for an 'executive' superintendent of Scotland Yard to carry a revolver?
I've been reliably informed that Charles Henry Cutbush was a 'paper pusher' at the end of his career, so why the service pistol?
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halomanuk20th February 2007, 01:45 PM
Hi all ,
Does anyone think that if Cutbush owned lodging houses,and as it has been mentioned before that Catharine Eddowes was attempting to meet the Ripper to blackmail him because she knew his identity,could this be the myterious 29 Aldgate High Street that some Ripperologists believe she was heading before she was arrested ??
If so ,then maybe Supt Cuthbush knew more than he let on and Thomas Cutbush was there and ready to strike ?
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robert20th February 2007, 02:39 PM
Hi Barry
Number 29 is a bit of a red herring, I'm afraid - see AP's post April 21st 2003.
http://www.casebook.org/forum/messages/4921/5991.html (http://www.casebook.org/forum/messages/4921/5991.html)
Robert
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rjpalmer6th October 2007, 03:45 PM
I'd be curious to know how many senior officers at the Met belonged to the "Protestant Truth Society." Anderson was a member. Was Cutbush?
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Natalie Severn6th October 2007, 08:22 PM
I'd be curious to know how many senior officers at the Met belonged to the "Protestant Truth Society." Anderson was a member. Was Cutbush?
Since in his political life Anderson was often a total stranger to the truth - self-confessedly so, the Society"s title doesnt exactly inspire confidence in its credibility does it?
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rjpalmer6th October 2007, 09:23 PM
Natalie -- No, I suppose not. It's interesting, though. The man aim of the group appears to have been to combat 'ritualism' in the C of E and other Protestant sects. Up to, and including, storming church services. We know that Anderson belonged to the PTS, and Charles Cutbush seems to have been cut from the same cloth. Chief Inspector Littlechild, as mentioned in Evans and Rumbelow's new book, excluded Roman Catholics in a clause in his will. (One wonders, though, if he might have had a specific bloke in mind. He seems to have got on well enough with Inspector Melville, who was Catholic).
I'm not sure how this would necessarily help our understanding of the Whitechapel Murders, except that there was a sort of general Imperial and Unionist attitude at Scotland Yard that might have coloured certain aspects of their investigation.
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Natalie Severn6th October 2007, 11:10 PM
Well it was certainly the case, RJ, that at least two senior policemen were dire enemies of the Irish cause:Sir Robert Anderson and Sir Melville Macnaghten. Sir Robert had been the Home Office expert on Fenians and the thwarting of Home Rule and had nominal charge of the Ripper investigation from October 6th 1888 and Macnaghten was an Orangeman and descended from one of the original Prentice boys of Derry according to Martin Fido.James Monro appears to have also been totally committed to anti Fenian activities as head of the secret Irish department and Supt.Charles Cutbush was reported in his orbituary to have harboured paranoid delusions about Catholics trying to poison his water supply.And they are just a few of the senior policemen-other such as Sir Charles Warren were committed Freemasons who have been linked historically with the Orange Lodges and we havent even begun yet to look closely at the politicians like Lord Randolph Churchill and Lord Salisbury who were fierce supporters of Unionism and the Orange men.
Where it becomes intriguing from the point of view of the Whitechapel murders is Macnaghten"s reported belief that the Ripper was a leader of a plot to assassinate Mr Balfour at the Irish office.Why Balfour? Apparently he is supposed to be the originator of the Irish "shoot to kill" policy,apparently confirmed in a telegram sent by the Divisional Magistrate for Cork, reading," Deal very summarily with any organised resistance to lawful authority.If necessary do not hesitate to shoot".
In this context James Monro"s following remarks in his personal memoirs give much pause for thought viz."The Fenians.....resolved to inaugerate a system of asssassination of eminent persons,Mr Balfour ,especially to be carried out by Irish men NOT Irish Americans.The agent chosen for this rascality was JS Walsh,a resident of Brooklyn and a well known ruffian who had been concerned with the Phoenix Park murder."
Finally, James Monro regarded, "The whole affair of the Whitechapel murders of 1888 as a very[political] hot potato", a remark that has led to speculation about whether the Ripper was part of a plot to discredit and distract the British Police and politicians.
If this were to be so, then I believe we may need to look as well,at whether the victims themselves had in anyway brought the Ripper"s wrath upon themselves----was Elizabeth Stride outside the IWEA as an "informer" [ the IWEA were sympathisers with the Irish Nationalist cause long before Michael Davitt became associated with Berner street"s political activities in 1891].Had Catherine Eddowes an "assignment" with the Ripper that day that led to her death?Was she too perhaps an informer?
Best
Natalie
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