Anderson Interview Nov 14 by the NY Sun

[David Orsam]

With Queen Victoria Street shut, blocking off any route via the Embankment

Of course, the Embankment itself was shut so that route was a complete non-starter.

I am wondering if a cab could have headed west from Whitehall, taken the crossing at Westminster Bridge, snaked across south London to London Bridge and then come back over the river into King William Street/Gracechurch Street/Bishopsgate and thence to Whitechapel. The problem there was that King William Street was closed. An option might have been a right turn after London Bridge into Lower Thames Street and up the back streets to Spitalfields but that would have needed to cross Fenchurch Street and then Leadenhall Street, both of which were shut. So you'd have to go right round Aldgate and then back into Spitalfields through Houndsditch or thereabouts. Not sure how viable or quick that journey would have been.

[Monty]

Really? I certainly wasn't aware of that. Can I ask what the evidence is for it?

Before responding to your post, I naturally consulted my treasured copy of 'Capturing Jack the Ripper' by Neil. R.A. Bell in which I found, on page 198, this statement by the author:

'...it was a letter to the Times on 1 October 1888, from Mr Percy Lindley of Essex, which triggered the police's interest in the use of bloodhounds as an investigatory tool.'

Are you saying the book is wrong?

I am rather disappointed in your last post to me David,

I thought you were above such things, it saddens me to realise my thoughts were wrong.

You have set the incorrect context regarding your quote from my book. The full passage reads -

"On the 12th September, less than a week after the murder of Annie Chapman, and a little over a fortnight before the double event, a Mr L.F.S. Maberly of Dublin had sent a letter to the Morning Advertiser. “Sir,” he wrote, “Knowing by experience the sagacity and keen sense of smell of the bloodhound, I would strongly urge upon the Government the propriety of testing their powers in discovering crime.”

In addition, ‘E.P’., from Bayswater, also wrote to the Morning Advertiser, claiming that, “I feel sure that, had the police been provided with a hound and a good horse, the Whitechapel murderer would have been found within six hours.” However, it was a letter to The Times on 1st October 1888, from Mr Percy Lindley of Essex, which triggered the police’s interest in the use of bloodhounds as an investigatory tool. Mr Lindley wrote:

“Sir, - With regard to the suggestion that bloodhounds might assist in tracking the East-end murderer, as a breeder of bloodhounds, and knowing their power, I have little doubt that, had a hound been put upon the scent of the murderer while fresh, it might have done what the police have failed in. But now, when all trace of the scent has been trodden out, it would be quite useless.

Meanwhile, as no means of detection should be left untried, it would be well if a couple or so of trained bloodhounds - unless trained they would be worthless - were kept for a time at one of the police head-quarters ready for immediate use in case their services should be called for. There are, doubtless, owners of bloodhounds willing to lend them, if any of the police, which, I fear, is improbable, know how to use them.” "

As this full passage was included in The Murders section of my book, the passage you quote is in reference to those murders.

The book is correct.

That said, the discussion of the use of hounds in police investigations occurred prior to the Whitechapel murders of 1888, I suggest you go back to 1870s Lancashire for that reference. With regards Scotland Yard, you can ask, however I'm not going to cite it. This due to the possibility it may be used in a future project, and the fact, as I said, you have vexed me.

Monty

[David Orsam]

The book is correct.

Well if the book is correct, Monty, and the police's interest in bloodhounds was "triggered" by Percy Lindley's letter in the Times of 1 October 1888 then in effect, the police's interest in bloodhounds was triggered by the Whitechapel murders, no? But if you are saying that you now have information (which you can't reveal) that the police's interest was triggered prior to the Whitechapel murders then the book must be inaccurate. I can't see how the two possibilities are consistent with each other.

I also don't see how the extended quotation from your book has added anything at all. Either the police interest was triggered by the Percy Lindley letter or it wasn't.

I'm perfectly satisfied that the reason for the negotiations to purchase the bloodhounds, and the Home Office agreement to the expenditure, was because of the murders. One only has to read Sir Charles Warren's letter to Mr Lindley to see that he was asking questions about bloodhounds tracking a murderer.

Obviously, I don't want to disappoint, sadden or vex you Monty, and I'm satisfied that my posts on this topic have been of the highest possible standard, but I might have misunderstood your purpose in posting in this thread. You originally posted, in a post apparently aimed at me, to say that the matter of the hounds was in hands of Sewell. I responded by drawing your attention to my article (a) to show you that I was already aware of this and (b) to point out that Sewell no longer had the hounds as of 9 November (which you already knew as it's in your book). So I'm really baffled by this entire chain of correspondence.

[Robert]

There is a long interview with Lindley in the 'Pall Mall Gazette' for April 13th 1891. Lindley seems not to have been a major breeder - he has a male and female plus three puppies (and his occupation in the censuses is always given as author or journalist or publisher). The article spends some time clearing up the apparently popular misconception that bloodhounds (and their breeders) are bloodthirsty. Lindley says that when Warren asked him for his advice he dissuaded him from using the hounds. He says that it might one day be conceivable to train a hound so that it could track someone like the Kelly murderer, but it would be very difficult.

[Robert]

I think Percy died in New Zealand 4th June 1947 aged 90.

[David Orsam]

Lindley says that when Warren asked him for his advice he dissuaded him from using the hounds. He says that it might one day be conceivable to train a hound so that it could track someone like the Kelly murderer, but it would be very difficult.

Everyone's a genius after the event but on 1 October 1888 he wrote to the Times to advise the police to keep a couple of trained bloodhounds at police headquarters because, 'as a breeder of bloodhounds, and knowing their power, I have little doubt that, had a hound been put upon the scent of the murderer while fresh, it might have done what the police had failed in.'

There's an element of Pierre-like construction of that sentence, with Lindley having little doubt that it 'might' have worked, but I have little doubt that, had the bloodhounds successfully tracked the murderer in 1888, Lindley would have been claiming the credit in 1891!

[Robert]

Hi David

Yes, he does seem to have allowed his enthusiasm for bloodhounds to run away with him a bit, since he backtracks later :

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/woodford_times/890920.html

Of course, the word 'fresh' can mean anything - maybe within five minutes of the crime?

It may be relevant that Lindley was preparing to publish a book on bloodhounds at the time of the murders.

[David Orsam]

I was watching the 'Reality' TV programme 'Cops' the other day and a suspect fled after a car chase. A dog was brought in (couldn't have been more than a few minutes behind), sniffed the driver's chair in the car and tracked and caught the suspect. So I guess if JTR had sat down on a chair in Kelly's room and a dog and been brought in immediately after discovery of the body it might have had a fighting chance (but odds obviously against).

[RockySullivan]

I was watching the 'Reality' TV programme 'Cops' the other day and a suspect fled after a car chase. A dog was brought in (couldn't have been more than a few minutes behind), sniffed the driver's chair in the car and tracked and caught the suspect. So I guess if JTR had sat down on a chair in Kelly's room and a dog and been brought in immediately after discovery of the body it might have had a fighting chance (but odds obviously against).

Cops is the greatest show ever, I could watch it forever. One of the best ones is where a cop goes to pull over a car at night, the car takes off and flips off the road way down into a ravine with huge trees going through the windshield. You hear a lady screaming and the cops tackle a guy. It turns out he kidnapped the woman at gunpoint moments before. The girl was obviously prostitute, here's the kicker, no pants...on the guy, no pants in the car, he left the house with no pants and no underwear and went out driving with a gun!

I saw a true crime show where the police used a bloodhound to find the body of a little girl who had been murdered. I'm pretty sure the bloodhound tracked the scent for miles and miles of highway, and may have used a car at times and then picked up where they left off. It actually seems pretty reasonable that the bloodhounds could track MK's heart if the Ripper took with him