Did Anderson Know

[Steven Russell]

It's not a case of casting aspersions - contemporary evidence aplenty has been produced from which you may draw your own conclusions (you cannot expect others to do that for you) and it is simplistic to state 'he was an honourable man', which can mean several things.

No he did not name Kosminski but if you read the published sources that analyse what he did say and present all the evidence you will see that Anderson's 'Polish Jew' is almost certainly Macnaghten's 'Kosminski, and almost as certainly is Aaron Kosminski. But all this is old information.

Have you read the standard books such as the A-Z and Sugden? There will soon (July) be a new edition of the A-Z and I thoroughly recommend it; it should answer your questions.

Dear Mr. Evans,

Thank you for your kind comments.

I have indeed read "A-Z" and Sugden, and even some mighty tomes penned by your good self which I have found extremely interesting and informative.

I do apologise if my somewhat less than encyclopaedic knowledge has in some way annoyed you. "You cannot expect others to do that for you" seemed a little harsh. After all, we are all "Standing on the shoulders of giants" are we not?

Respectfully yours,

Steve.

[Steven Russell]

Phil,
Thanks.

Natalie,
Interesting stuff about Churchill. Where can I find it?

Regards,

Steve.

[Stewart P Evans]

Opinion

Dear Mr. Evans,
Thank you for your kind comments.
I have indeed read "A-Z" and Sugden, and even some mighty tomes penned by your good self which I have found extremely interesting and informative.
I do apologise if my somewhat less than encyclopaedic knowledge has in some way annoyed you. "You cannot expect others to do that for you" seemed a little harsh. After all, we are all "Standing on the shoulders of giants" are we not?
Respectfully yours,
Steve.

No, I merely meant that this is a contentious field that involves much personal opinion and interpretation. So you really do have to draw your own conclusions from the available evidence. My problem is, it is a subject I am becoming heartily sick of. Thank you for your kind comments.

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Steve,

see House of Commons minutes 21 April 1910,3.45 pm Hansard,14 April 1910.

There is a lot more on this theme too -see House of Common"s minutes of 11th ,12th, 13th, 14th 15th April as well as 21st.

[Steven Russell]

Natalie,

Thank you,

Steve.

[Jonathan H]

'In saying that he was a Polish Jew I am merely stating a definitely ascertained fact. And my words are meant to specify race, not religion. For it would outrage all religious sentiment to talk of the religion of a loathsome creature whose utterly unmentionable vices reduced him to a lower level than that of the brute.'

Anderson's Memoirs, 1910

Wow, look at that language: 'loathsome creature', 'utterly unmentionable vices', and 'the brute'.

If I am to be really honest I think that Anderson fastened onto Kosminski not because he was Jewish, or Slavic Euro-trash, or a resident of Whitechapel, or even insane. Certainly not because he was a contemporaneous suspect or because he was identified by a Super-witness -- neither of which stand up.

He latched onto Kosminski because he was caught masturbating.

That is the one 'definitely, ascertained fact' which all the sources agree upon.

A sin so great that it nullifies the man's religion -- and even his claim to be a human being.

I think Anderson, like a lot of religios, was obsessed with sex, and he saw the Ripper, or rather poor Aaron, as guilty of multiple murders because he was guilty of this grave, unforgiveable sin -- the sin of Onan.

Typically, Macnaghten, the compassionate charmer, describes it as 'solitary vices' which sounds almost monkish, no harm to others, even pitiful.

[Jeff Leahy]

No, I merely meant that this is a contentious field that involves much personal opinion and interpretation. So you really do have to draw your own conclusions from the available evidence. My problem is, it is a subject I am becoming heartily sick of. Thank you for your kind comments.

Then that would be a shame. Because despite what you may think, there is a very serious story here that requires, serious consideration.

And the words and ideas put forward by yourself, Martin, Don and Begg …are much, thumbed and considered by us lesser rippo’s.

And despite the fact, that us lesser rip’s, might take the odd pop at you guys..while working it through what you each have to say....

You are very much appreciated. It takes some guts to come on a public message board and take our flack...

Many thanks. You may not realize it but you are a great help.

Pirate

PS I seem to have communications, on this subject, going back almost five years now! we aint getting any younger!

[Jeff Leahy]

'In saying that he was a Polish Jew I am merely stating a definitely ascertained fact. And my words are meant to specify race, not religion. For it would outrage all religious sentiment to talk of the religion of a loathsome creature whose utterly unmentionable vices reduced him to a lower level than that of the brute.'

Anderson's Memoirs, 1910

Wow, look at that language: 'loathsome creature', 'utterly unmentionable vices', and 'the brute'.

If I am to be really honest I think that Anderson fastened onto Kosminski not because he was Jewish, or Slavic Euro-trash, or a resident of Whitechapel, or even insane. Certainly not because he was a contemporaneous suspect or because he was identified by a Super-witness -- neither of which stand up.

He latched onto Kosminski because he was caught masturbating.

That is the one 'definitely, ascertained fact' which all the sources agree upon.

A sin so great that it nullifies the man's religion -- and even his claim to be a human being.

I think Anderson, like a lot of religios, was obsessed with sex, and he saw the Ripper, or rather poor Aaron, as guilty of multiple murders because he was guilty of this grave, unforgiveable sin -- the sin of Onan.

Typically, Macnaghten, the compassionate charmer, describes it as 'solitary vices' which sounds almost monkish, no harm to others, even pitiful.

This is an interesting comment Jonathon.

I've always been puzzeled by the masturbation aspect.

On the whole Schizophrenics suffer low sex drive. Various studies have been done on testosterone levels but inconclusive.

If Anderson witnessed the man 'masturbating' it might explain alot.

I doubt from what I have been told this would have continued into the asylum?

Pirate

[Natalie Severn]

There is no evidence whatever that he masturbated except from Jacob Cohen or possibly Wolff.
The hospitals never recorded any masturbation.
As Jonathan says, I think it was probably Anderson who had a big problem over it, though I doubt very much he was ever obsessed with sex quite frankly.Too busy on his hotline to the Almighty!

[Phil Carter]

Then that would be a shame. Because despite what you may think, there is a very serious story here that requires, serious consideration.

And the words and ideas put forward by yourself, Martin, Don and Begg …are much, thumbed and considered by us lesser rippo’s.

And despite the fact, that us lesser rip’s, might take the odd pop at you guys..while working it through what you each have to say....

You are very much appreciated. It takes some guts to come on a public message board and take our flack...

Many thanks. You may not realize it but you are a great help.

Pirate

PS I seem to have communications, on this subject, going back almost five years now! we aint getting any younger!

Hello Jeff,

Yes, I heartily echo those comments- no matter what point of view we all have. The appreciation of the work done by those you mentioned and others, cannot easily be summed up, for it is, indeed, great.
The help you mention transcends down to all levels, be they young or old.
And yes, I am sure we are all very grateful for it. I, like you, certainly am.

Very decent posting. Well said.

best wishes

Phil

[jason_c]

I havent had time to read all this thread so apologies if going over old ground.

In Anderson we are speaking of someone grounded in the murky world of espionage. He would have made many enemies in his time. Enemies who no doubt "leaked" to the press many damaging stories, some true, some not(As Anderson himself did).

I would also draw a distinction between Anderson as spy chief and the rest of his police work. In counter espionage it is thoroughly commendable to bend the truth at times. It is what i expect in a spymaster.

I believe Littlechild is close to the truth in stating Anderson only thought he knew. Note Littlechild does not claim Anderson was lying.

[jason_c]

'In saying that he was a Polish Jew I am merely stating a definitely ascertained fact. And my words are meant to specify race, not religion. For it would outrage all religious sentiment to talk of the religion of a loathsome creature whose utterly unmentionable vices reduced him to a lower level than that of the brute.'

Anderson's Memoirs, 1910

Wow, look at that language: 'loathsome creature', 'utterly unmentionable vices', and 'the brute'.

If I am to be really honest I think that Anderson fastened onto Kosminski not because he was Jewish, or Slavic Euro-trash, or a resident of Whitechapel, or even insane. Certainly not because he was a contemporaneous suspect or because he was identified by a Super-witness -- neither of which stand up.

He latched onto Kosminski because he was caught masturbating.

That is the one 'definitely, ascertained fact' which all the sources agree upon.

A sin so great that it nullifies the man's religion -- and even his claim to be a human being.

I think Anderson, like a lot of religios, was obsessed with sex, and he saw the Ripper, or rather poor Aaron, as guilty of multiple murders because he was guilty of this grave, unforgiveable sin -- the sin of Onan.

Typically, Macnaghten, the compassionate charmer, describes it as 'solitary vices' which sounds almost monkish, no harm to others, even pitiful.

"One did not need to be a Sherlock Holmes to discover that the criminal was a sexual maniac of a virulent type".

Note even the ultra prude Anderson could distinguish between a masturbatory sexual maniac and a virulent sexual maniac. The one dimensional view of Anderson again falls short.

Anderson uses the term brute at the end of the chapter dealing with The Ripper. I assume by "brute" he his talking of all the Rippers vices, not simply masturbation.

[Stephen Thomas]

Wow, look at that language: 'loathsome creature', 'utterly unmentionable vices', and 'the brute'.

He latched onto Kosminski because he was caught masturbating.

Don't knock it, Jon.

I'm so old that when I wake up in the morning I have to do it to get my heart to start beating. And how wonderful it is to have sex with someone you really love. Those police were a bit mean by tying Aaron's hands behind his back.

[Natalie Severn]

Don't knock it, Jon.

I'm so old that when I wake up in the morning I have to do it to get my heart to start beating. And how wonderful it is to have sex with someone you really love. Those police were a bit mean by tying Aaron's hands behind his back.

How uncool!

[Jeff Leahy]

There is no evidence whatever that he masturbated except from Jacob Cohen or possibly Wolff.
The hospitals never recorded any masturbation.
As Jonathan says, I think it was probably Anderson who had a big problem over it, though I doubt very much he was ever obsessed with sex quite frankly.Too busy on his hotline to the Almighty!

I'm not claiming that I have any answers NAt.

I'm just saying that I find it puzzling. Schizophrenia by and large produces low sex drive. I have come across papers disputing this.

There does appear to be links with testosterone and schizophrenia.

But this seems far from clear.

My brothers comments however were clear on his dealings working with schizophrenics. 'ie low sex drive' norm.

Trusting you are well

Jeff

PS yes Phil, sometimes we forget that we all probably have more 'in-common' than not, thats why I enjoy conferences, apart from getting 'me bum' pinched of course.