Did Anderson Know

[Stewart P Evans]

Just One Thing

Just to put the record straight it was Edward Jenkinson who was the goverment spymaster at the time who drafted in Irish officers to work undercover in London not specifically Whitechapel. Their brief was to try to infiltrate the Fenians. he drafted them in and disnt even tell Monro or Anderson they were operating in London.
...
The plot to assasinate Balfour was a fenian plan and nothing to do with the Whitechapel murders.
...

Just one thing Trevor; Jenkinson was sacked in December 1886.

Which plot to assassinate Balfour are you speaking about??? As regards this comment I would draw your attention to the remarks by Douglas Browne in 1956, he had access to files that have not been seen by living researchers.

By the way, this crime index was not an early collating system. It was a general index of crime related files.

[Stewart P Evans]

Suggest

Stewart,
If someone suggested that the Ripper was a Fenian, so be it. That is completely different than suggesting the murders were part of a Fenian plot. Jeffrey Dahmer was from the Church of Christ. Were his murders a Church of Christ plot? I don't think so.
Cheers,
Mike

Did I suggest any such thing? I have merely supplied some sources that tend to get overlooked (sometimes as a matter of convenience). I leave it to others to make what they will of it.

[Stewart P Evans]

Question

As to the question posed by this thread - no he didn't. He may have thought he did.

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Natalie,

I don't see how that answers any of the questions I posed...

Rob H

As I said Rob I dont have the answers----but you can bet your bottom dollar Robert Anderson did! Look, I am willing to accept ,as Littlechild appeared to,that Robert Anderson "thought" he knew who the ripper was.But realistically that is one hell of a stretch from actually "knowing". In fact I am very suspicious indeed about Anderson"s "definitely ascertainable fact" since it was so vehemently denied by a] Inspector Abberline [the "hands on" police chief at the time ]and b] the Chief Commissioner of the London Police,Smith,another policeman there at the time/present at the Eddowes crime scene on night of murder etc.
So given the level of trashing of the very notion of someone actually knowing who he was by Abberline and derision about Anderson"s supposed knowledge of where the killer lived and who he was by Smith-and others later ,I prefer to see Anderson"s claim as simply a face saving exercise in his otherwise "impeccable"record**.Here ,I believe the "context" of Anderson"s claim to be quite as significant as the claim itself, for reading about it in either Blackwood"s or his autobiography a little later [1910] its very clear that what Anderson was immensely proud of himself about was his [special] Irish Branch record with regards to tracking down Fenian"s and scotching their plots and plans.
So inserting as he did just a couple of paragraphs [in a long autobiography about how he dealt with the Irish question] about the other notorious event of his tenure,that of the" failure "of his department to capture "Jack the Ripper"or know who he was, Anderson very cleverly-----and having considered ALL eventualities and repercussions,decided it was best and safest to claim he "knew who it was" but had his hands tied and could neither bring him to justice or name him.
A master of "disinformation"----as always!
Cheers
Norma

** ofcourse if you were the Spymaster Jenkins who Monro and Anderson dished dirt on and got sacked ,or Michael Davitt who defended Parnell, you might disagree aboutAnderson"s impeccable credentials!

[Trevor Marriott]

Stewart

Just one thing Trevor; Jenkinson was sacked in December 1886.

Not sacked "resigned" December 1886 left job officially jan 1887

By the way, this crime index was not an early collating system. It was a general index of crime related files.

But it still contained information which had either been gathered by the police or volunteered by the public. So i would say it is part of the intelligence gathering process, there for anyone to refer back to. There obviously wanst to much in relation to those entries as there is only one number per entry. Other entries i have seen have numerous different file numbers.

All this hair splitting soon need to invest in a "syruppa"

[Phil Carter]

Hello Stewart,

Thank you for posting those snippets.
As you correctly point out, Browne and possibly Richard Strauss, before his death, had very possibly seen folios and papers that we have never seen, in part I suspect due to the purloining of the files 20 years or so later, during the years before all was transferred on to microfilm.


All,
It isn't a radical idea to put purloining and Fernian connections together either. The A-Z did it 15 years ago.
That is why, 3 months ago, I appealed (on a general, non personal basis) for the return of these files from anyone who had them or knew them to be held in private hands. I don't believe for one moment those missing files will solve the case, but I DO believe they could open up this ongoing investigation, and SHOULD it be that they contain information on, or connection to, Fenianism, or anything else for that matter, then all the better!
My guess is that those files contain references that could cause a shift of balance to what we know to be the accepted norm today.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I recall that Browne actually says in the introduction to the book that he had the generous help of the authorities at New Scotland Yard, and mentioned, I believe having access to to records without which he could not have undertaken the project?

With reference to Sox's comment that Fenian connections are the new "Royal Conspiracy" "Maybrick" or "Sickert" theory, the idea is NOT new. As Stewart points out, G. Douglas Browne, 1956. That's 54 years ago. Neither is it a "fashion" either. It seems to me, that having exhausted the known routes, other things deserved to be considered. Smokescreens happen. Mostly politically driven. Just because this is JTR, doesn't mean it didn't happen. It is possible.

Re Anderson..did he know or nay?
My opinion remains that Anderson had other agendæ. His reputation, not least.

best wishes

Phil

[The Good Michael]

Did I suggest any such thing? I have merely supplied some sources that tend to get overlooked (sometimes as a matter of convenience). I leave it to others to make what they will of it.

Did I suggest that you suggested such a thing? I was just pointing out the difference to They who are not to be named.

Mike

[Phil Carter]

If anyone is trying to say that the Whitechapel murders were caused by rebels and anarchists, or that the police were committing the murders in order to place blame on them, or that the victims were police informants that had to be taught a lesson by the Fenians; if any of those things are suggested, I'd suggest you were nuts. I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one.

Michael,
Your above quote, suggesting 3/4 things I wish to respectfully address..

1) "...the Whitechapel murders were caused by rebels and anarchists"
IMHO, generally, no. But one person, with such links, POSSIBLE.
2) "...the police were committing the murders in order to place blame on
them... (the Fenians/anarchists)"
IMHO, No.
3) (a)"....that the victims were connected to the Fenians and (b) were being
taught some kind of lesson..."
(a) IMHO, Possible. (b) If point 1 (above) is possible, then IMHO yes, this
is possible.

This isn't new ,radical thinking. It's looking into possibilities. And if it turns out to be hogwash, I'd be delighted! It would mean another line to cross out.
That is how I look at it.

And if one suggests that these possibilities are so remote that they are not worthy of consideration, I say this. Every single theory looked at in 121 years has led us all nowhere. So whats the harm in trying? We are in a state of deadlock.

best wishes

Phil

[The Good Michael]

1 But one person, with such links, POSSIBLE.

Phil,

I have thought about a Kosminski type being simultaneously a member of the Berner Street Club while simultaneously taking some form of revenge against the establishment by killing women. I noticed that there were no Jewish victims and that a connection to Jewish solidarity (not religious, however) can be made to the graffiti. It would have nothing to do with conspiracy and cover-up (by the police). It would be the ambitions of one man who thought he was doing the right thing, but certainly his being a member of the club would be secondary to his nature. Anyway, that is as far as I can go with it, and overall, it can't be shown to have any merit.

Back to the question, I have no doubt that Anderson said what he thought he knew. The accuracy of his statement is a much different thing. Conspiracies don't work because people can't be trusted as a whole.

Cheers,

Mike

[DVV]

It was a rebel, Phil.
Without a cause.

Amitiés,
David

[DVV]

3) (a)"....that the victims were connected to the Fenians and (b) were being
taught some kind of lesson..."
(a) IMHO, Possible. (b) If point 1 (above) is possible, then IMHO yes, this
is possible.

Phil

Sincerely, Phil, I see no reason to suggest so.

Amitiés,
David

[Phil Carter]

From down on the Waterfront, no doubt David.

best wishes

Phil

[Uncle Jack]

Did anderson know?

...

No

[DVV]

The only viable Irish suspect is Shane McGowan.
Mary Kelly's real name was Sally McLennane.

Amitiés,
David

[Jenni Shelden]

i dont think tehre's a standard belief on anything in ripperology!