Did Anderson Know

[Phil Carter]

Hello Simon,

Many thanks for the information. The man on the ball. Well done.

Norma,

Yes, intruiging isn't it. That date, as you so rightly point out, is important. It WAS that early. It catagorically states "for special duty in connection with the Whitechapel murders"..and it would have been the RIC, not the RUC, I believe?

Now why oh why would Anderson want these people coming in from DUBLIN in connection with the murders? Hmmm?

best wishes

Phil

[Natalie Severn]

[London] Evening News, 9th October 1888—

DETECTIVES REINFORCED FROM DUBLIN.
The correspondent of the Irish Times states that a number of Irish constables have been withdrawn from Dublin for special duty in connection with the Whitechapel murders.

Thanks Simon,
Lets not forget though that these Irish constables were both colleagues and compatriots of Sir Robert Anderson who had worked with them in Dublin Castle for many years prior to him being based in London. It was probably some kind of deal to get help with several matters.Additionally ,a lot of obfuscation seemed to go on one way and another! Dont forget the famous one concerning Tumblety.He was supposed to be getting chased across the Atlantic by a team of coppers as the Whitechapel murderer and it was all in the American press......but nobody over here had ever heard of him let alone knew of any connection he may have had to Jack the Ripper-----it certainly wasnt in OUR press that he was suspected of being JtR!

[Phil Carter]

Hello Norma,

For the first time, and hopefully one of rare occasions, I have to disagree with you. The explanation you give is just supposition. Anderson was the head Fenian-buster as well as Head of the Whitechapel murder case. Fact. Mixing Tumblety and his involvemnt AFTER the crimes were committed into this doesn't connect using the presumption of obfuscation. And calling in old pals on the assumption that it was "probably some kind of deal to help with several matters" only strengthens the question. Why bring in people from Dublin to Whitechapel?

best wishes

Phil

[Simon Wood]

Hi Norma,

In the same way that Inspector Andrews was never in New York to investigate Jack the Ripper, maybe these Dublin cops weren't investigating him either, but rather were being employed in connection with what was really going on in Whitechapel. Jack the Ripper appears to have been a useful premise for all manner of political hanky-panky.

Regards,

Simon

[jason_c]

....

Hello Sox,

I can only but agree wholeheartedly. It is called DISinformation. And the police only use DISinformation...when?

I think the whole thing is a smokescreen. And an extremely badly worked out one at that! Anderson made several glaring comments that wouldn't stand up with a supporting frame, let alone as "def ascertained fact"..

It is my sincere belief that Anderson needed to convince, to make sure the boiling kettle was kept under HIS control...and part of the convincing was because the Druitt idea and the Ostrog idea were no hopers from the start. He was probably telling not just the general public, but serving and retired bobbies on the beat that we caught the bugger, and locked him up in an asylum to

1) boost his own importance and ego
2) convince the world that the police forces in London had everything under control
3) deflect from why the police were REALLY on mass in Whitechapel. The thing that gives it all away is the almost immediate pulling out of policemen in the area following the Kelly murder,
and the immediate, "he died in the Thames" rubbish.

Nope, I see only one thing. A smokescreen. And Anderson was pulling the strings. With his "I'm in charge of the WM case" hat on, and his "I'm in charge of the SD" hat on, he had it sown up.

Consider this. The RIC (Royal Irish Constabulary) were brought over to assist in the Whitechapel murder case. That was reported in the Irish newspapers on Oct 9th. Now why in heavens name would the RIC be brought all the way from DUBLIN to assist in a Whitechapel murder inquiry?

Please everyone, don't tell me "you can't always believe everything you read in newspapers".. it doesn't wash 100 times over.

Err... it seems pretty obvious to me. The police, with their house to house searching, were NOT after identifying Jack the Ripper. They were after someone, or some people, connected to Fenianism. The whole area was FLOODED with Fenian busting policemen! It was a smokescreen!

Complete twaddle is the idea that Kosminski was Jack the Ripper... it is STILL being seriously discussed.... with not an OUNCE of FACTUAL evidence.. and that remains mysteriously consistent.... but THIS writer, and many more, are seeing the holes as clear as daylight. Some refuse to bend on this subject because it ruins the status quo of the JTR subject. Shame. A new generation is here. And we won't refuse to bow down and cow-to.

Not everyone swallows the rubbish put before us any more. Why? Because nothing, in 121 years, has been seen to be an answer. So Anderson's "More Holy than thou" image should be put exactly where it deserves to be put, and should have been put years ago.... In the bin. Filed away under disinformation, lies and unsubstantiated false statements.

All IMHO, that is.

with best wishes

Phil

If it was a disinformation campaign then the campaign was a long time in the making. The public were held waiting nearly twenty years to be "disinformed". The boiling kettle was in fact tepid by the time Anderson published his memoirs.

The rubbish statement of "died in the Thames" wasnt even Anderson's.

Fenian busting policemen in an area filled with Irish immigrants shouldnt be a surprise to anyone.

[Natalie Severn]

Well yes Phil,I see what you are meaning.So leave out the "obfuscation" or "disinformation" oh-and Tumblety and what do we have?
A group of Irish constables arriving in mainland Britain ostensibly to "help out" in tracking down the Ripper?
So perhaps Anderson,like Macnaghten,suspected Jack the Ripper may have been a rogue Irish terrorist doing in Whitechapel "unfortunates" as a sidekick? OMG how bizarre is this going to get chaps?

[Phil Carter]

Norma,

Like I have said all along. NOTHING is normal in this. It doesn't make sense.

That is why we cannot think conventionally. We have tried it..It doesn't work.

There is much much more to this than meets the eye.

best wishes

Phil

[Phil Carter]

If it was a disinformation campaign then the campaign was a long time in the making. The public were held waiting nearly twenty years to be "disinformed". The boiling kettle was in fact tepid by the time Anderson published his memoirs.

The rubbish statement of "died in the Thames" wasnt even Anderson's.

Fenian busting policemen in an area filled with Irish immigrants shouldnt be a surprise to anyone.

Hello Jason,

Thank you for your reply.

Of COURSE it was tepid by then. But I am talking about AT THE TIME, and Anderson was chief whip cracker in BOTH departments. He is writing years later, when all the Fenian stuff has been snuffed out remember.. he is writing about THEN, not 1910.

The disinformation didnt start in 1910... It started at the time. In 1888. The whole case is riddled with it.

The "died in the Thames" statement was part of it. Attibute that to Macnaghten...but disinformation it was.

And Fenian busting in an area filled with Irish immigrants? Oh come on... please, respectfully, and I mean this...read Fenian history. There were known Fenian terrorists knocking around the area and had been for ages. There was a plot to kill Balfour...the Post Office job...plots to kill Queen Victoria.. it is all over the place.

with best wishes

Phil

[Natalie Severn]

Simon and Phil,
Maybe Houdini was called in to see how the ripper got out of Mary"s room when the bed was fast against the door?
Anyway,I"ll be very impressed if you can use these strange events to track down the elusive Jack!
All the Best
Norma

[Simon Wood]

Hi Norma,

Why is it that when the word conspiracy, cover-up or smokescreen is suggested in the context of Jack the Ripper some people immediately bristle with indignation and deride the idea as something akin to Nazi Lizards from Uranus Murdered Diana?

There are too many strange coincidences, lies, evasions, evidential leaps of faith and unlikely scenarios which keep repeating themselves for the WM to have been a straightforward serial killer mystery. Something else was going on, but the mystery will never be solved while we're trapped by old and outmoded thinking inside the warm and familiar confines of the traditional version of events.

Who needs Houdini? The bed wasn't against the door, and the door wasn't locked. Easy when you know how. But you're right: now you come to mention it, Room 13 does have a dash of Houdini about it. I believe it's the first true-life locked room mystery. The cops must have been reading Poe.

Regards,

Simon

[Jeff Leahy]

Hi Norma,

Why is it that when the word conspiracy, cover-up or smokescreen is suggested in the context of Jack the Ripper some people immediately bristle with indignation and deride the idea as something akin to Nazi Lizards from Uranus Murdered Diana?

Probably because most conspiracy theories, are at best, utter toosh. The answer, should there be one, is far more likely to be a simple one.

Pirate

[Sox]

Probably because most conspiracy theories, are at best, utter toosh. The answer, should there be one, is far more likely to be a simple one.

Pirate

Could not agree more. Anderson had a pretty spotless record, the big blot being his departments failure to capture the Whitechapel Killer. I think it is fairly clear, from his books & comments, that it is his pretty large ego talking.

[Phil Carter]

Probably because most conspiracy theories, are at best, utter toosh. The answer, should there be one, is far more likely to be a simple one.

Pirate

Hello Jeff,

Normally, under most normal circumstances, I'd agree with you wholeheartedly. But I will, if you permit me, give you a glaring, proven example of a conspiracy, or cover-up, or smokescreen. And it was found out. They are rare. YES. But it happens...

I dont like to call this (the WM) a conspiracy.. Whenever the word conspiracy is raised, it brings in connotations that we are all familiar with.

Look at it this way. If we believe the Royal Conspiracy theory for ex... it runs down on many many points. Forget Joeseph Gormans tale of the child and the marraige...just stick to Eddy being the killer. What if he WAS? Does it matter? What if he DIDN'T die in 1892, and was incarcerated at Osbourne House for the next 30 years? So what? The main answer is.. The Royal family wouldn't go to such lengths to cover up madness. Oh really?

My answer to that is Katherine Bowes-Lyon, her sister and cousins. Katherine Bowes Lyons was presumed DEAD by all, until a newspaper found her and her sister incarcerated in a home in Surrey for the mentally disabled. DEBRETT'S, printed that she had died in 1961. And when they were told that she was alive, said.. "If the family told us she was dead, then we had no reason NOT to believe it"... THE FAMILY? Err... The late Queen Mother's family? Errrr...

Read about it. It is a disgrace. And it is an old fashioned idea that anyone connected to the highest in the land cannot be seen to be mentally disturbed..ESPECIALLY when mental disfunction runs rife with 5 female members of the same generation as the Queen Mother!
Yes, the highest in the land have covered up things, to save face, shame and igmony. So if that happened only 50 years ago... what was the Victorian attitude? It is only recently that Prince John, who died nearly 100 years ago, had his life fully exposed to the world. Nobody was supposed to know.

So yes, smokescreens happen. And the Whitechapel murders, I maintain, are riddled with them. Because common sense went out of the window in this case as soon as it started.

Forgive me for the sidetracking. But the above example is a prime candidate to show that NOBODY is above cover-ups. Not even Anderson. The chief of the CID..who SPECIALISE in undercover, softly softly work.

best wishes

Phil

[jason_c]

I agree with Pirate Jack and sox.

Im all for looking outwith the MacNaghten Memorandum for the killer, but to suggest conspiracy is simply wrong imo. For conspiracy I would have thought MM and Anderson would have at least came up with the same suspect as killer. All these "fenian busters" disagreed with one another.

[Phil Carter]

Jason,

Exactly. Logic, normal rational thinking says exactly that. Why didn't they agree with each other? Like in house fighting eh?

No, One of the best weapons the CID have, and still to this day use, is confusion and disinformation....whilst they get on with what they want to.

It's nothing new. It has been going on since and SD/CID was formed.

best wishes

Phil