Anderson's Opinion of Abberline?

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

Robert Anderson, Criminals and Crime, 1907–

"I was not a little surprised, therefore, to find occasion to suspect that one of my principal subordinates was trying to impose on me as though I were an ignoramus. For when any important crime of a certain kind occurred, and I set myself to investigate it a la Sherlock Holmes, he used to listen to me in the way that so many people listen to sermons in church; and when I was done he would stolidly announce that the crime was the work of A, B, C, or D, naming some of his stock heroes. Though a keen and shrewd police officer, the man was unimaginative, and I thus accounted for the fact that his list was always brief, and that the same names came up repeatedly. It was "Old Carr," or "Wirth," or "Sausage," or "Shrimps," or "Quiet Joe," or "Red Bob," &c. &c, one name or another being put forward according to the kind of crime I was investigating.

"It was easy to test my prosaic subordinate's statements by methods with which I was familiar in secret service work; and I soon found that he was generally right."

Frederick George Abberline [retired], Old Bailey, April 1892–

" . . . In March, 1891, I went to Calais, and kept observation on the steamers arriving and departing there—I took Sergeant Lowe with me, as he spoke French fluently—on the morning of the 9th April I saw four men I knew leave the mail steamer Breeze, arriving from Dover at a quarter to one a.m.; they left separately—one was named Powell, another Sinclair, and the two others, Red Bob and Shrimps . . ."

So was Anderson writing about Abberline?

Regards,

Simon

[Natalie Severn]

Possibly Simon.You certainly do find "em! Personally it sounds a lot like Littlechild---I am only judging from the letter to Sims,but Littlechild,for all his seniority, comes across as somewhat pedestrian and provincial in that letter.

[Jonathan H]

But would a field detective like Abberline be one of his 'principal subordinates', one too-enthusiastic and yet too-unimaginative, and who listens to his boss as if he is in church -- or so claims Anderson?

Isn't it more likely to be Macnaghten, whom we know he despised?

Or even a backhander at Swanson?

I don't know.

Maybe it is Abberline, because of the reference to some of the same nicknames for low-lifers.

We need Stewart to provide an opinion.

[The Grave Maurice]

Interesting observation as always, Simon. But if Abberline were, in fact, unimaginative and prosaic, I'd have to re-think my whole mental picture of him, and I don't have the energy to do that at the moment.

[Debra A]

Yeah I would say so, Simon, but later on his book (criminals and crime)and in some other texts; Blackwood's, 19th Century etc. Didn't Anderson take credit for this 'down to earth' sort of detective work?

[Stewart P Evans]

No

Hi All,
Robert Anderson, Criminals and Crime, 1907–
"I was not a little surprised, therefore, to find occasion to suspect that one of my principal subordinates was trying to impose on me as though I were an ignoramus. For when any important crime of a certain kind occurred, and I set myself to investigate it a la Sherlock Holmes, he used to listen to me in the way that so many people listen to sermons in church; and when I was done he would stolidly announce that the crime was the work of A, B, C, or D, naming some of his stock heroes. Though a keen and shrewd police officer, the man was unimaginative, and I thus accounted for the fact that his list was always brief, and that the same names came up repeatedly. It was "Old Carr," or "Wirth," or "Sausage," or "Shrimps," or "Quiet Joe," or "Red Bob," &c. &c, one name or another being put forward according to the kind of crime I was investigating.
"It was easy to test my prosaic subordinate's statements by methods with which I was familiar in secret service work; and I soon found that he was generally right."
Frederick George Abberline [retired], Old Bailey, April 1892–
" . . . In March, 1891, I went to Calais, and kept observation on the steamers arriving and departing there—I took Sergeant Lowe with me, as he spoke French fluently—on the morning of the 9th April I saw four men I knew leave the mail steamer Breeze, arriving from Dover at a quarter to one a.m.; they left separately—one was named Powell, another Sinclair, and the two others, Red Bob and Shrimps . . ."
So was Anderson writing about Abberline?
Regards,
Simon

No, he wasn't talking about Abberline.

[jason_c]

But would a field detective like Abberline be one of his 'principal subordinates', one too-enthusiastic and yet too-unimaginative, and who listens to his boss as if he is in church -- or so claims Anderson?

Isn't it more likely to be Macnaghten, whom we know he despised?

Or even a backhander at Swanson?

I don't know.

Maybe it is Abberline, because of the reference to some of the same nicknames for low-lifers.

We need Stewart to provide an opinion.

Ive yet to see any proof of this.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Stewart,

Who was Anderson writing about?

Regards,

Simon

[Stewart P Evans]

Fit the Bill

Hi Stewart,
Who was Anderson writing about?
Regards,
Simon

There are only two officers who fit the bill - Superintendent (later Chief Constable) Adolphus Williamson and Chief Inspector (later Superintendent) John Shore. I think you'll find it's the senior man, Williamson. I looked at this some years ago.

[Phil Carter]

Hello Stewart,

May I ask why you rule out Abberline (given the name comparison) and what reasons do you include Shore and Williamson?

best wishes

Phil

[Simon Wood]

Hi Stewart,

While it is impossible for any of us to state with absolute certainty about whom Anderson was referring, I do find it difficult to believe it was the trusted, valued and devoted Chief Constable Adolphus Williamson he described as "unimaginative" and "prosaic". But at the same time it is clear that the phrase "one of my principal subordinates" [my italics] fits the bill and does tend to rule out Abberline. It was their coincidental uses of the nicknames "Red Bob" and "Shrimps" which initially led me to think this might be the case.

Of course, as we come to learn more about Anderson's somewhat rarified opinion of himself and, in this instance, his obvious delight in associating his investigative technique with that of Sherlock Holmes, it could be the case that he had no particular person in mind and was merely taking the opportunity to suggest an intellectual superiority over that of his subordinates.

Regards,

Simon

[Jonathan H]

Thanks Stewart for clearing that up.

To Jason

Neither mention the other in their memoirs having worked together so closely for so many years.

Anderson makes a fleeting and unflattering [un-named] reference to Mac -- so identified by Swanson in his copy of the memoirs.

The very fact that they chose diametrically opposed suspects, and that Macnaghten in his memoirs criticises Anderson -- no name -- for releasing the hoax letter, which he himself, he claims, worked out in June 1890 was an hoax.

Plus Mac's debunking of the twin ideas that there was a chief witness and that the chief suspect was ever 'detained' in an asylum. It does not matter that this actually refers to separate suspects as Mac never makes this distinction.

Mac's memoirs are dedicated to Anderson's successor.

It's a very English, very upper crust form of frosty, polite Stalinism.

[Phil Carter]

Hello Jonathan,

With the greatest respect to all concerned, I do not believe Stewart cleared up anything, he merely gave an opinion.

best wishes

Phil

[Jonathan H]

Remembering that Stewart and I disagree about many things to do with Macnaghten, regarding this aspect of the case his expert opinion was good enough for me.

Why always nickel-and-dime ourselves like an old married couple?

[Stewart P Evans]

Shore

Hi Stewart,
While it is impossible for any of us to state with absolute certainty about whom Anderson was referring, I do find it difficult to believe it was the trusted, valued and devoted Chief Constable Adolphus Williamson he described as "unimaginative" and "prosaic". But at the same time it is clear that the phrase "one of my principal subordinates" [my italics] fits the bill and does tend to rule out Abberline. It was their coincidental uses of the nicknames "Red Bob" and "Shrimps" which initially led me to think this might be the case.
Of course, as we come to learn more about Anderson's somewhat rarified opinion of himself and, in this instance, his obvious delight in associating his investigative technique with that of Sherlock Holmes, it could be the case that he had no particular person in mind and was merely taking the opportunity to suggest an intellectual superiority over that of his subordinates.
Regards,
Simon

Simon, no it's not Williamson he refers to, it's John Shore. I had this pointed out to me by a close colleague and I checked back in a book I have had for many years and not consulted lately and I can confirm it's definitely Shore. That'll teach me to keep answering posts off the top of my head - the old memory isn't what it was.