Prelude To a Scare

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

"On my return [from Paris] I found the Jack-the-Ripper scare in full swing." Robert Anderson—Chapter IX, The Lighter Side of my Official Life (1910).

Here are the many and varied events of the 11 days which preceded his return.

Regards,

Simon

[Stephen Thomas]

Hi Simon

That timeline above is brilliant. Most useful. Well done

Right at the bottom you've got 'Schwartz's testimony disavowed'.

Could you please refresh my memory on that?

Best wishes

[Simon Wood]

Hi Stephen,

Many thanks. I'm glad you found it useful.

Re: The disavowal of Schwartz's staement—

The Star 2 October 1888:

"In the matter of the Hungarian who said he saw a struggle between a man and a woman in the passage where the Stride body was afterwards found, the Leman-street police have reason to doubt the truth of the story. They arrested one man on the description thus obtained, and a second on that furnished from another source, but they are not likely to act further on the same information without additional facts."

Regards,

Simon

[Stephen Thomas]

The Star 2 October 1888:

"In the matter of the Hungarian who said he saw a struggle between a man and a woman in the passage where the Stride body was afterwards found, the Leman-street police have reason to doubt the truth of the story. They arrested one man on the description thus obtained, and a second on that furnished from another source, but they are not likely to act further on the same information without additional facts."

Hi Simon

To my shame, this is all new to me. This report must have been discussed here before. What was said about it? True or false?

[Simon Wood]

Hi Stephen,

Nothing more was said other than that reported in The Star.

The Star had a scoop on its hands with the October 1st Schwartz story. I doubt it gave them any satisfaction having to print a retraction/disavowal the following day.

True or false? Probably about as much as anything else in the WM.

Regards,

Simon

[Stephen Thomas]

Hi Simon

The Star report seems to be saying that Mr Broad Shoulders and probably Pipeman as well were questioned by the police. Also that Schwartz's testimony was discredited. All very strange. The same sort of thing happened with Hutchinson's sighting (alleged ) of Astrakhan man. All very odd.

Best wishes

[Fisherman]

And let´s not forget here the report signed by Abberline where he stated that the search for a Lipski had turned up nothing, and proceeded to state that the term Lipski could have been an insult pointing to BS man threatening Schwartz with the outcry.
Signed when? On the 1:st of November, 29 days after Schwartz was "disavowed"...

Schwartz´experience in Berner Street echoed in police reports between high ranking officers long after the event. It would seem strange to delve into it if everybody was satisfied with it being substanceless, I think.

The best,
Fisherman

[Simon Wood]

Hi Fisherman,

Strange indeed.

Swanson, too, leaned heavily on the disavowed Schwartz statement—see his Elizabeth Stride report of 19th October 1888.

Regards,

Simon

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Simon,
I missed this timeline of yours and it is great-really helpful.
Like Stephen I never knew that there was a report that Schwartz"s men were found and questioned!Was this more "disinformation" I wonder?

[c.d.]

Hi Stephen,

Nothing more was said other than that reported in The Star.

The Star had a scoop on its hands with the October 1st Schwartz story. I doubt it gave them any satisfaction having to print a retraction/disavowal the following day.

True or false? Probably about as much as anything else in the WM.

Regards,

Simon

That seems an awfully short time for the police to change their mind (if they really did do) as to the validity of Schwartz's story. It would almost require an admission by Schwartz that he made the story up. Very strange.

By the same token, there doesn't seem to be a lot of evidence that the police considered the BS man to be the Ripper.

c.d.

[c.d.]

I have to say that I am a little confused here. A story that Schwartz was discredited as a witness seems to be a major find yet it hasn't generated many posts. Is the story not considered reliable? What am I missing here?

c.d.

[Dan Norder]

Unfortunately press reports are notoriously unreliable, and the Star more so than many others. When it's just one report, especially when it contradicts the information found in police documents, it's difficult to put much trust into it.

If you think about it, you could find a single, unconfirmed press report to support just about any idea at all about the case. How reliable or important it ends up being depends upon how it fits in with other news reports, police documents, and so forth.

[paul emmett]

I'd just like to go back to two of the original points. Schwartz wasn't exactly disavowed; THE STAR just said "the police have reason to doubt" his story. We have been saying that here for some time: there are, indeed, reasonS to doubt Schwartz's story. I'm glad to see the police "catch up." And as Simon had said, THE STAR seems to have nothing to gain by undercutting its own story of a day before.

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

Regarding Dan's point about press reports being unreliable, especially when just one report contradicts information found in police documents, it's worth pointing out just how unreliable the police reports could be.

For example, take a look at Swanson's report on the Stride murder. He has Doctors Blackwell and Phillips examining Stride's body at a time when neither of them had yet arrived on the scene.

Regards,

Simon

[Jeff Leahy]

Hi All,

Regarding Dan's point about press reports being unreliable, especially when just one report contradicts information found in police documents, it's worth pointing out just how unreliable the police reports could be.

For example, take a look at Swanson's report on the Stride murder. He has Doctors Blackwell and Phillips examining Stride's body at a time when neither of them had yet arrived on the scene.

Regards,

Simon

I think you will find simon that how reliable anything actual is depends on Dan Norders veiw of the world..it simply has no bearing on reality...

As soon as you dig beneith any 'sweeping' Dan Norder claim your going to find half baked theories and poorly research opinion..

But i would wont to influence you against a 'rabscallion'

yours Jeff