Anderson in NY Times, March 20, 1910

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

If we are to believe that the cause of Aaron's insanity was "self abuse", then I would respectfully suggest that this may have become something of an embarrassing obsession with him. But while, as Chris says, "There is no evidence at all that Aaron's family was particularly concerned about this, or that they considered it the cause of his illness", it is only fair to point out that, equally, there is no evidence to suggest they thought he was Jack the Ripper.

Also, why did it take Aaron's family almost three years to conclude he was Jack the Ripper? And I'm also wondering how they might have felt just days after committing him to Colney Hatch to learn that the Ripper investigation was ongoing and that the police were looking at Sadler [complete with the Mitre Square witness] as a possible suspect, and even later William Grant Grainger.

Regards,

Simon

[Natalie Severn]

Of course, "self-abuse" simply means masturbation, not "some sort of obsession with masturbation".

There is no evidence at all that Aaron's family was particularly concerned about this, or that they considered it the cause of his illness. "Practises self-abuse" was simply stated in a list of "Other facts indicating Insanity" supplied by Jacob Cohen to Dr Houchin when he committed Aaron. It was then specified as the cause of insanity in the Colney Hatch admission register and case book.

Of course, among the other facts communicated by Jacob Cohen was "He took up a knife and threatened the life of his Sister". So it can scarcely be denied that Houchin had been informed that Aaron had violent tendencies. Unless someone is going to suggest that these records are also fakes, of course.

Chris,
a]We dont know for sure what self abuse meant. It is assumed it meant masturbation . Surely that had to have been a bit excessive or obsessive to have caused "insanity"?

b]It was not then specified as the cause of insanity.

The exact wording taken from Feb 6 1891 Colney Hatch admissions book appears as :

Supposed Cause Unknown [added in red : "Self-Abuse ]



With ref to the comment by Jacob Cohen that Kosminski took up a knife and threatened the life of his sister.Cases like this would have filled police station"s domestic violence incidents book -as they still do but these people were not then considered dangerous criminals . Kosminski was not considered by Houchin as a dangerous criminal as is evidenced in his words about his patient and in the same Male Patients Day Book [Feb 6 1891].


Note:

Dangerous to others NO

[Chris]

a]We dont know for sure what self abuse meant. It is assumed it meant masturbation .

It's not assumed "self-abuse" meant masturbation. It meant, and still means, masturbation. That's one of the definitions that can be found in the dictionary.

b]It was not then specified as the cause of insanity.

The exact wording taken from Feb 6 1891 Colney Hatch admissions book appears as :

Supposed Cause Unknown [added in red : "Self-Abuse ]

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here. The point I was making is that it was not Aaron's family who attributed his insanity to self-abuse, but others.

However, for the record, in the register of admissions [London Metropolitan Archives, H12/CH/B2/2] the physical cause of the disorder is simply stated as self-abuse. The date of Aaron's admission was 7 February, not 6 February.

What you are quoting is the case book [H12/CH/B13/39], which evidently initially copied Houchin's certificate, dated 6 February [StBG/ME/107/8, no 1558], which had stated that the cause was unknown, but was later given an additional comment "Self-abuse", perhaps on the basis of the admission register.

Regarding the incident with the knife, I can only repeat that it shows Houchin had been informed that Aaron had violent tendencies. Yes, Houchin concluded that Aaron was not dangerous to others, but the situation isn't quite as black-and-white as one would guess from your previous posts. We should keep this incident in mind, if for no other reason than that it might partly explain what Macnaghten wrote about Aaron Kozminski.

[Chris]

But while, as Chris says, "There is no evidence at all that Aaron's family was particularly concerned about this, or that they considered it the cause of his illness", it is only fair to point out that, equally, there is no evidence to suggest they thought he was Jack the Ripper.

Certainly. And in fact there is no evidence that they knew anyone else suspected that he was Jack the Ripper.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Chris,

Could you please explain your last comment?

Regards,

Simon

[Chris]

Could you please explain your last comment?

I just mean that there's no evidence that the family knew that he was suspected by the police, or under surveillance, or that an attempt had been made to identify him, or anything like that.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Chris,

I'm not surprised that the family didn't know any of this, for there is no reliable evidence to even suggest that [a] Aaron was suspected by the police, [b] that he was under surveillance or [c] that an attempt had been made to identify him.

Regards,

Simon

[Natalie Severn]

Chris,
Are you suggesting then,with regards to the meaning of the words "self-abuse" that J Cohen and brother in law Wolf , along with the Old Etonian Macnaghten were so cloistered and ignorant that they were not aware that such activity was not exactly abnormal for a young man? Surely Kosminski must have been self abusing in a way that was a bit more "excessive" or odd than simple masturbation?


With regards to your other point,I dont mind what anyone keeps in mind---so long as they dont keep suggesting Kosminski"s admission to either Colney Hatch or Leavesdon had anything to do with him being a dangerous criminal such as Jack the Ripper.

[Chris]

I'm not surprised that the family didn't know any of this, for there is no reliable evidence to even suggest that [a] Aaron was suspected by the police, [b] that he was under surveillance or [c] that an attempt had been made to identify him.

But, as you know, I don't agree.

[Chris]

Are you suggesting then,with regards to the meaning of the words "self-abuse" that J Cohen and brother in law Wolf , along with the Old Etonian Macnaghten were so cloistered and ignorant that they were not aware that such activity was not exactly abnormal for a young man? Surely Kosminski must have been self abusing in a way that was a bit more "excessive" or odd than simple masturbation?

Here's what I'm suggesting again:
(1) The family attached no particular importance to this. It was just one of a number of facts mentioned by Jacob Cohen.
(2) The family didn't suggest it was the cause of Aaron's illness.
(3) The meaning of the phrase "self-abuse" isn't in question. It just means masturbation.

That is all I was saying, and I really do think that's all I want to say - or have time to say - on the subject.

With regards to your other point,I dont mind what anyone keeps in mind---so long as they dont keep suggesting Kosminski"s admission to either Colney Hatch or Leavesdon had anything to do with him being a dangerous criminal such as Jack the Ripper.

As you know, I'm not suggesting any such thing. Though no doubt other people will still feel free to suggest what they like!

[Tom_Wescott]

Chris,

It seems to me what you are suggesting is that masturbation makes a man go insane. This, of course, flies in the face of medical science, which dicates masturbation only causes blindness. While I'm glad there's place on the internet for fantasy theorists like yourself, I'm grateful for more rational minded researchers like Simon Wood, who stay grounded in logic and don't try to twist the words of others and make mountains out of molehills. I suggest you follow his example.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Chris]

It seems to me what you are suggesting is that masturbation makes a man go insane.

That is a joke, isn't it? On this thread, it's just a bit difficult to tell.

[Tom_Wescott]

More of a parody. It seems everybody is reading what they want into your words. I know from vast experience what that's like and how frustrating it is. But I must admit it's rather amusing when you're on the outside looking in!

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Simon Wood]

Dear Doctor Wescott,

Thanks for the diagnosis.



So it makes you go blind, huh? And I thought it was just my advancing years.

Regards,

Simon

[Natalie Severn]

My Simon,---what huge glasses the poor little fella has to wear to check things out! Or is he just making sure everything isnt disappearing before his very eyes..............?