Anderson in NY Times, March 20, 1910

[DVV]

Since there was no ability to prove Aaron was the Ripper, he could not have ben committed to Broadmoor. So I do not see why the police would have communicated their suspicions to Chambers...
RH

Hi Rob,

thus the police wouldn't have communicated their suspicions to anybody?
Neither to the Chambers, nor to the medic staff ?

Amitiés,
David

[Scott Nelson]

Medical staff - yes. If Kosminski were under suspicion. It would be a necessary precaution to protect other inmates. BTW, recall that two other Jews, and dangerous ones at that, Hyam Hyams and David Cohen, both went to Colney Hatch.

[DVV]

Yes Scott, and I also think of Tottie Fay who died in Broadmoor, though not a dangerous criminal as Kosminsky would be - according to Anderson.

And whatever the place, the police must have warned the medics.
Which they apparently did not in the case of Kosminski.

Amitiés,
David

[Trevor Marriott]

Before the year passes I feel i should contribute once more before wishing everyone a happy new year.

A question was posted earlier on this thread which was in my mind a very good question. The question was framed along the line of How it was that all of the so called senior officers Anderson/Monro/Littlechild/Abberline when publishing their memoirs many years after the murders ceased all suggested they new the identity of the ripper or what fate had befallen him and why did they not mention them at the time of he murders.

The answer is quite simple. None of them did know the identity of the killer. In later years they volunteered nothing more than uncorrobrated theories or personal opinions. You only have to look at the different suspects they suggested. To date no one has been able to come up with any direct evidence to prove any of their theories or opinions

If anyone of a senior rank knew he would certainly not have kept it a secret even the name of a suspect would have neccesitated an enquiry.

All this rubbish about the police knowing his identity and incarcerating him and not being able to prosecute him. With such a high profile case they would have without a doubt put him before a court even it were later deemed that the person was insane. The truth is again there was no evidence.

As a result since the theories and opinions still linger today researchers have been running around like headless chickens trying to find the missing pieces of the jigsaw when they dont even exist.

happy new year

The truth is still out there

[Scott Nelson]

Tottie Fay in Broadmoor??? Where are you getting this from? Anderson? I thought Totty was a press invention.

What has irked me for many years in reading various conclusions drawn by many posters on this site is that just because something doesn't appear to make sense on the surface, is that it couldn't have happened at all. What we have is fragmentary, so when you say the police apparently didn't warn the asylum about Kosminski, you are basing that assumption on the surviving written record, or what has been discovered thus far.

[robhouse]

Hi AP,

I have always assumed it was Kozminski's family that tied him up and brought him to the workhouse.

DVV,

I don't know what the police would have communicated, nor to whom. But I think it is a very important question to ponder. One must remember a few things:

a) The police did not have sufficient evidence to convict Kozminski, as Anderson himself said. Thus they could not have put him into Broadmoor, nor would they have been able to do much of anything, legally speaking. However, the extraordinary nature of the Ripper murders may have mitigated against such obstacles, and forced the police to go beyond normal measures in coming up with a "solution."

b.) It would not have been desirable to the police nor the home office that it should be publicized that the police "knew" or even suspected that they knew who Jack the Ripper was, but were unable to convict him for lack of proof. At the very least, if it became public knowledge that Kozminski was a "strong suspect" he and probably his family would have been subject to a lynch mob. Even worse so because he was a Jew... the entire Jewish community might have been targeted for violent retribution. The police, in other words, must have been worried as to the larger ramifications of the disclosure of such information.

With this in mind, we must ask, what would the police have done? Who would they have informed, and so on?

If the above conjectures are correct, then the police certainly would have wanted to keep the facts about Kozminski a guarded secret. This is supported by Swanson's statement that the suspect was known only to top officials of CID... we may assume that others were aware of Kozminski (members of the city CID, etc) but that probably the details were known only to top officials at CID and the HO.

So who would they choose to tell? And what would have been recorded as to the matter in official publicly accessible documents?

I would conjecture that the police may have told some of the higher officials at the asylum, but that little about their suspicions re JTR would have been recorded in public documents. Kozminski was quite possibly secluded, restrained, chemically restrained etc at Colney Hatch... and nothing at all is known about his first 16 years at Leavesden. By 1910, he was essentially catatonic.

I assume the police may have cooperated with the family in having him put away, but their participation was quite possibly discreet and behind the scenes.

RH

[DVV]

Tottie Fay in Broadmoor??? Where are you getting this from? Anderson? I thought Totty was a press invention.

What has irked me for many years in reading various conclusions drawn by many posters on this site is that just because something doesn't appear to make sense on the surface, is that it couldn't have happened at all. What we have is fragmentary, so when you say the police apparently didn't warn the asylum about Kosminski, you are basing that assumption on the surviving written record, or what has been discovered thus far.

Hi again Scott,

as far as I've understood, Tottie Fay could have inspired the name of "Fairy Fay", though it's unlikely (the song being more likely).
Anyway, Tootie is real, and ended her days in Broadmoor, acc to Paul Begg (Chapter: "The beginning" in "The facts").

Amitiés
David

[DVV]

If the above conjectures are correct, then the police certainly would have wanted to keep the facts about Kozminski a guarded secret. This is supported by Swanson's statement that the suspect was known only to top officials of CID... we may assume that others were aware of Kozminski (members of the city CID, etc) but that probably the details were known only to top officials at CID and the HO.
RH

Hi Rob,

Ok, I see and admit some of your points.

As to what I've quoted, well, we're back into conspiracy...

A suspect "watched" day and night in the East End and only known to "top officials"?

Hmmm...

Amitiés, best wishes,
David

[Stephen Thomas]

Errrrrr......

One more time folks

Anderson does not mention anybody called Kosminski.

He may well have never heard of him.

His suspect/culprit isn't named.

The relevant Swanson marginalia may well be a Curate's egg.

[DVV]

Hi Stephen,

chill out, my friend, I'll soon replace Kosminski by "the maniac of a most virulent type".

Best wishes,
David

[Simon Wood]

Hi Rob,

If the scenario you describe actually took place in February 1891 and was known only to top CID officials, why was Chief Constable Macnaghten "inclined to exonerate" Kosminski and Ostrog in favour of Druitt?

Regards,

Simon

[Cap'n Jack]

I'd bet my headless chicken against Trev's headless chicken anytime.
My advance is always bigger.

[Natalie Severn]

It isactually A DEFINITELY ASCERTAINABLE FACT -written and recorded

that Kosminski was NOT considered "a danger to others" .That particular "definitely ascertainable fact " was never "adjusted" by the medical staff of either Colney Hatch or Leavesdon. Then as now medical staff could have been sued for putting other patients and staff at risk by writing half truths about dangerous inmates.There is no record whatever of Kosminski even having been put under restraint-a very common practice then and even now.But there are details of the danger David Cohen was at Colney Hatch and what restraints had to be used.

[robhouse]

Hello Stephen,

What do you mean by a "curate's egg"?

RH

[DVV]

We've shifted from AP's chicken to Stephen's egg.
Now something must come out.