There must be a photo of Frederick Abberline

[Chris]

Here's the "restored" photo next to an illustration of the hat-wearing Abberline:

Much as this would be an appealing solution, I have to ask - are you sure that what you've included in the "restoration" is all really part of the man's face, and doesn't belong partly to his collar and the space to the right of his head?

[Jane Coram]

Hi,

I've been following the posts with interest, and have to say that I don't think we can do much at all without a higher res copy of the photo. There just isn't enough information there to work from, although Gareth's was an admirable effort.

A couple of things struck me......... I can't help but wonder if Abberline would have been stuck at the back, poking his head around the corner and looking rather like a little lost soul who shouldn't really be there - wouldn't he be in the front row?

I also think that if the sketches of Abberline are anything like accurate, he would appear to have quite a full face, and that chap looks as if he has a very lean and rather gaunt face, although it's very hard to be certain with such a low res photo. The fact that he is wearing a bowler and has whiskers doesn't lean much in favour of it being him as the other two candidates have the same features....and they have walking sticks......which we know was a trademark of Abberline's.

I think with the information we have at the moment (and granted that is sod all) I would still go for one of the two in the front, and more probably the one on the right, but this other chap is certainly worth a closer look.

Hugs

Jane

xxxxx

[Sam Flynn]

Much as this would be an appealing solution, I have to ask - are you sure that what you've included in the "restoration" is all really part of the man's face, and doesn't belong partly to his collar and the space to the right of his head?

I said it was "rough", Chris. The problem is that the pixellation is so bad, that if I'd removed too much of the "fuzz" (pardon pun in this context) I might have been eating into his face! The "dark fuzz" at the bottom of the mutton-chops is, I'm sure, authentic - i.e. not part of the collar - it's the paler fluff further up the face that I'm not so sure about.

[Sam Flynn]

Thanks, HMUK.

Here's the "restored" photo next to an illustration of the hat-wearing Abberline:

[ATTACH]6040[/ATTACH]

What strikes me about this montage is that, had they both been photographs, we could easily be looking at a "front and side view" of the same person, taken at the same photo-shoot.

[Sam Flynn]

De-fuzzed

Uppermost fluff removed. With my earlier caveats about "eating into the face" borne in mind...

[halomanuk]

This,even when i saw it originally,just SEEMS to be Abberline.
And as i said earlier,it was a typical modest gesture from him not to be at the front of the gathering.
He never wrote any memoirs or commented on the murders in detail which to me sums up the privacy of the man.

[robhouse]

I have been mulling this over for a few days, and I feel convinced that this guy must be Abberline. I think he looks about the right age.

But more importantly, he seems to match the 4 sketches of Abberline below. (Note: It seems to me that the drawing on the right shows Abberline when he is somewhat older... can someone confirm the source of this picture?)

The most notable common trait in all 4 sketches is the facial hair. In the 3 sketches to the left Abberline has bushy sideburns, and a thick moustache, but a clean shaven chin. It seems this man is the only one in the photo that really matches this. Also, the general look of his face matches the 3 sketches to the left. The only other guy who matches the Abberline sketches is the one in Scotland Yard Investigates, that Don Rumbelow thought might be Abberline. But this guy just does not look right to me... his eyes dont look right at all (his eyebrows seem to go down at the sides, whereas Abberlies seem to go up).

So I feel at least fairly confident in saying that this guy is Abberline. There is no one else in the photo that comes close.

Rob H

[robhouse]

Also it seems to me that Abberline may be in the back for two reasons:

1. As perhaps the most notable Whitechapel detective, he might have wanted to keep a low profile, and apparently avoided photographs (hence hiding behind the other guy)

2. He may have felt a sort of camraderie with the "street detectives", and thus would avoid being in the front row.

RH

[Celesta]

Rob,

That does look like him. I've looked at this picture before and thought so at that time also. I wish it were a bit clearer with less shadow on the upper face.

[Jane Coram]

Hi Rob,

I totally agree with your assessment of the chap on the left.........you've nailed the problems with him being Abberline as far as I can see, very succinctly.

I do think that chap at the back deserves further investigation..........and his whiskers do tally very well with the sketches.......although I still think he looks a bit slimmer that most of the sketches.

Having said that, the photo predates 1886 I believe, so it's possible he put on a few pounds in the interim. The chap at the back tallies very well indeed with the slimmer profile sketch.............so Heaven knows where that leaves us.

The only thing I could suggest in mitigation of the chap in the front on the right is that he might have changed his whisker styling at some point between the time the photo was taken and 1888 when the sketches were drawn.

I do wish we had a higher res copy of the photo, I'd love to get stuck into those blokes and have a fiddle! (And it's a good job you know what I'm talking about. Lol)

Hugs

Jane

xxxx

[The Grave Maurice]

...the photo predates 1886 I believe, so it's possible he put on a few pounds in the interim.

I too thought, initially, that he might be a bit on the thin side---Abberline was known to have a slight paunch. But, if it comes down to a question of whether he might have stacked on a few pounds after the photo was taken, I can state, from personal experience, that it is very possible...especially as he moved into his mid-forties.

[kensei]

I've been following this thread and just thought I'd chime in. I would love to see a definite photo of Abberline as he is one of my favorite characters in the Ripper story. In studying the four drawings it first seemed that two showed a hairless chin and two showed chin whiskers, suggesting that he changed style from time to time. But in studying Jane's excellent painting, I realized how both drawings and old photos can make the shadow beneath the chin look like hair. I think Abberline did maintain a hairless chin. But the problem in identifying him in old police photos would seem to be- wasn't his basic style of facial hair and dress a pretty common one among men of that era? I would imagine that in a police force the size of London's there were many detectives with similar basic features.

Might I suggest that a better place to look for photos of Fred might be in marriage records? He was married twice, wasn't he? Surely there were wedding portraits taken.

[kensei]

I just did a quick Google image search on "Frederick Abberline." The first several pages featured mostly pictures of Johnny Depp. Ugh!

[Mascara & Paranoia]

Not to piss on your fireworks but they all look like your architypal Victorian policeman to me and no one more specifically alike to the Abberline illustration (which may not have been an exact replica of what he might've looked like anyway). I mean, hell, there's another bloke on the bottom line just below the first person on the left-hand-side who could just as easily double as Abberline. I don't mean to be negative but those men could be any one of a dozen LVP police officers of that time. Plus "Abberline" looks the most ominous in that picture so it's needless to say that everyone's attention is gonna be drawn more to that bloke than any of the others.

[Suzi]

Hi all
I'm CONVINCED !!! - I showed the drawings to hubby- a journo and a non Ripperologist and said- OK find this guy...He spotted him straight off!!!

WELL done!!!!! Rob- we've gottim- You're nicked my son!!!...Now where do we go from here??

Suz xx

Hi kensei- This style of facial fur was often referred to as 'Dundreery weepers' (Not sure about the spelling of Dundreery..Dundreary/Dundrearry maybe...will check!)

M & P - No they dont!! especially the rather delightful bespectacled guy!