Abberline's Personal History

[ChrisGeorge]

Hello Chris,

A belated happy birthday young man,

a question or two that you may be able to answer with regard to Abberline that I have respectfujy asked before but have yet to receive the answers,

In the A-Z It states the following :-

" (Abberline) served 35 days in the militia before joining the Met Police in 1863.."

Can you tell me what Branch of the militia, why only 35 days, what reason for his short stay and leaving and from where does this information derive?

Was Abberline dismissed from the Militia?

kind regards

Phil

Hi Phil

Thanks for the best wishes. Yes I am a young man. Getting younger by the day. And I have lost 28 pounds (circa two stone) -- I saw the doctor this morning and was weighed. Thus, I am no longer that vast rotund chap seen in Spitalfields in 2009 (see below).

Now as for your question about Abberline's service in the militia, the militia are a provincial part-time force much like the National Guard in the United States, which grew out of the state militias although today the National Guard has been federalized and thus can be sent to serve in foreign countries such as Iraq and Afghanistan, something that the U.S. founding fathers would never have conceived, since the original idea of the militia was strictly for local defense. Thus, similarly in Britain, a local farmer would serve in the regional militia, and the service would be on a sporadic basis, for a few days a month.

I am assuming that Abberline was a militiaman in his native Dorset rather than in London but I might be wrong about that. The number of days served by Abberline is entirely consistent with a local man serving for a few days. I don't believe there is any thought that he might have been dishonorably discharged -- the limited number of days is simply what a man served in that type of local force. After all such a man had a full-time job and would be allowed off for some days to join up with his militia company for training and drilling.

Here is some information on the Dorset militia--

"The Militia was the forerunner to the Territorial Army.

"The Militia had been in existence in Saxon times but called upon only in times of war and local unrest. The Dorset Militia had been suspended after the Napoleonic Wars, although recalled briefly in 1830 to deal with the Swing Riots (see Social History). In 1851 however President Bonaparte staged a Coup d'État in France and declared himself Emperor Napoleon III. This caused some alarm in Britain where Politicians feared that he might try to invade Belgium, which Britain was under treaty to defend. The County Militia were therefore revived and each county was given a quota to fill. In 1852 Dorset's quota was 506 men; in 1853, 308 men. A new Colonel was appointed for Dorset (Colonel Bingham) and training restarted in November 1852."

From The Militia Barracks, Keep Military Museum, Dorchester, Dorset

Best regards

Chris



Chris George, Colin Cobb, and Joanna Hannigan at the 2009 Jack the Ripper convention at the Kings Stores, Spitalfields, October 2009

[Simon Wood]

Hi Chris,

Thanks.

I've amassed more stuff on the Dorset Militia than I can shake a stick at, but there's still not a single sniff about FGA being one of their number.

Perhaps one of the A-Z authors would care to enlighten us.

Regards,

Simon

[Monty]

I suspect it may be from his Application Simon,

However just a guess, I'd be interested also.

Monty

[Tom_Wescott]

Wow, Cobb and Hannigan got their photo taken with the sixth Doctor. That's bad ass.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Phil Carter]

Hello Chris, Simon, Monty,

Thanks for that Chris. I appreciate all the background info,

Hello Simon,

The information about Abberline's militia link must have been garnered after 1996 and before 2010, as that line is not in the 1996 paperback version of the A-Z.
So if I undestand it correctly, we have no date nor year of his time in the militia, no knowledge of what branch (Dorset or otherwise), whether he left after a normal length of service or not, (we cannot assume anything without documentary evidence either way), and there is no cross-reference in the 2010 A-Z that relates to any of the above.

I can only agree and hope the authors of the A-Z can help us with the information,

Hello Monty,

Whilst I agree with your guess, may I ask if it was stated by Abberline himself in his hand written memoirs? I have never seen the full version of his handwritten notes so only ask as a couple of pages are reproduced in the A-Z 2010 version. (I refer to the hand written annotations compiled for Walter Green, c/w press cuttings, not the 28 handwritten pages concening the 'missing person' case nor the extra 12 pages rthat pertain to the Monte Carlo recollections. Although I have never seen these printed in full either- I believe Mr.Paul Begg is the owner of all of the above)

regards

Phil

[ChrisGeorge]

Hello Chris, Simon, Monty,

Thanks for that Chris. I appreciate all the background info,

Hello Simon,

The information about Abberline's militia link must have been garnered after 1996 and before 2010, as that line is not in the 1996 paperback version of the A-Z.

So if I undestand it correctly, we have no date nor year of his time in the militia, no knowledge of what branch (Dorset or otherwise), whether he left after a normal length of service or not, (we cannot assume anything without documentary evidence either way), and there is no cross-reference in the 2010 A-Z that relates to any of the above. . . .

I can only agree and hope the authors of the A-Z can help us with the information,
regards

Phil

Simon and I had a conversation elsewhere in which I said, "You say you have information on the militia but none on Abberline in the militia. When did he go to London, do you know?"

Simon, answered, "At a reasoned guess, late 1862, aged 19."

"The point is, was he in the militia in London or in Dorset?"

I am assuming this may be information ferreted out for the latest A to Z by Keith Skinner, who is the main researcher of the triumvirate.

All the best

Chris

[Simon Wood]

Hi Chris,

Yes, Keith Skinner is the most probable source.

Perhaps Abberline applying to join the London police was his way of avoiding prolonged service with the Dorset military.

Regards,

Simon

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi Chris,

Yes, Keith Skinner is the most probable source.

Perhaps Abberline applying to join the London police was his way of avoiding prolonged service with the Dorset military.

Regards,

Simon

Hi Simon

In answering Phil, I pointed out that the limited number of days Abberline is said to have served in the militia should not be viewed as any reflection on what service he gave in the militia... militiamen only served a limited number of days. That's the way it worked.

However, we also need to consider the fact that the police themselves were a quasi-military institution. Prior service by a potential recruit in the army or in the militia was looked upon with favor by the Metropolitan police. I agree with Monty that it could have been noted on Abberline's application to join the Met that he had served in the militia.

Best regards

Chris

[Simon Wood]

Hi Chris,

Possibly—like Edward Stanley and the Hampshire militia—Abberline served his annual month's stint with the Dorset militia before deciding to take off for London.

Perhaps Keith Skinner would be kind enough to tell us if this was the case.

Regards,

Simon

[Phil Carter]

Hello all.

Would someone please be so kind as to pass the following request on to the appropriate person? Thank you.

A respectful request to the authors of the A-Z.(Mssrs Begg, Fido and Skinner)

As there is no cross-referance pertaining to the statement, would it be possible to you to klndly provide us with the known details and information that would verify the statement in the A-Z re. Abberline's induction into the militia, date, branch (place of service), any eventual reason for end of tenure and source of any such details? Thank you for your kind consideration.

Respectfully,

Phil Carter

Edit. Our posts crossed Simon. Apologies.

[Debra A]

I suspect it may be from his Application Simon,

However just a guess, I'd be interested also.

Monty

Yes, Purely guessing, seeing as it isn't mentioned in the Militia records ONLINE themselves. ONLINE isn't everything though is it?
His brother was a military man, joined 1862, so it isn't outside the realms of possibility is it?

[Monty]

Yes Debs,

His application form would hold that info and he would have been obliged to have provided it.

It could have also been gleamed from any references.

Monty

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

How hard can it be for the person who discovered this Abberline "fact" to say whether it was found on his Met application form/in the Blandford Forum Archives/Public Record Office etc?

Why the big mystery?

Regards,

Simon

[Monty]

Could be a mystery Simon,

Could be they have bigger fish to fry, or just a case of karma.

Monty

[Simon Wood]

Hi Monty,

Or perhaps a red herring.

Regards,

Simon