Greetings from the past

[Ozzy]

Hope springs eternal*


*usually followed by disappointment

Hope didn't last forever with me. After a few months of ridiculous posts and not changing his ways regarding posts completely in bold my hope faded.

When reading threads these days I have to check to make sure the post isn't by Pierre, which ironically is quite easy - just avoid the full bold posts.*

But it can still make reading threads annoying, example being an interesting post from somebody else which might refer or quote to something that Pierre posted. In fact I'd say that since Pierre joined, I don't visit Casebook as much.

* - The only other person who sometimes made posts completely in bold is Trevor Marriott so I don't even have to check the poster's name if I come up against a completely bold post. Before Pierre joined, Trevor's posts were the only ones I made a point of skipping.

[Robert St Devil]

Errata and all. I would think that Polly,s conversation with Emily Holland was indication that she was prostituting herself on 31Aug - to the point of giving one more attempt and getting her doss money before trying to share a bed with a man at F&D St.

[Errata]

Errata and all. I would think that Polly,s conversation with Emily Holland was indication that she was prostituting herself on 31Aug - to the point of giving one more attempt and getting her doss money before trying to share a bed with a man at F&D St.

Well sure. But was Kate soliciting? And if not, how did the Ripper know she ever did? And if he didn't, was he targeting prostitutes? And if he wasn't, does it matter that Polly was likely soliciting?

[GUT]

Hi All,

Why do I get the overwhelming feeling that this thread is about to disappear up its own fundamental orifice?

Regards,

Simon

I hope so.

[Pierre]

Well sure. But was Kate soliciting? And if not, how did the Ripper know she ever did? And if he didn't, was he targeting prostitutes? And if he wasn't, does it matter that Polly was likely soliciting?

They were women who were out in the streets at night, alone and drunk. That was what he wanted.

Regards, Pierre

[GUT]

They were women who were out in the streets at night, alone and drunk. That was what he wanted.

Regards, Pierre

And your source for that is???

[Pierre]

Not to make a habit of sticking up for him, but Pierre does have a point. Prostitution has degrees, and it surely must have an expiration date. So the idea of "prostitutes" is actually quite a bit more complex.

If a woman sells herself in the winter but not the other three seasons, is she a prostitute? If she was one five years ago? Ten? If she does not allow penetration?

I mean there are sociologists who have been studying prostitution for decades who have a really tough time nailing down a definition. And since we are trying to distill all of Jack's victims down into a "type", it makes sense to try and agree on a definition sooner rather than later. Because Nichols and Eddowes might not both fit in every person's definition.

Hi Errata,

Yes, And "prostitute" as an ideal type isn´t a very good definition for the victims of the killer, since there were brothels in the West End where prostitutes were something completely different compared to prostitutes in Spitalfields.

So "prostitutes" were not what the killer was after, but women who were alone and drunk in the streets at night.

By ignoring the ideal type we can also hypothesize that the killer was acquainted with Mary Jane Kelly. She was not alone and drunk in the street when she was killed. She was alone and drunk in a room.

Was she a "prostitute" in that room - or a woman alone and drunk?

Regards, Pierre

[Joshua Rogan]

Well sure. But was Kate soliciting? And if not, how did the Ripper know she ever did? And if he didn't, was he targeting prostitutes? And if he wasn't, does it matter that Polly was likely soliciting?

Perhaps he was targeting women who looked like they might be prostitutes and wasn't too bothered whether they actually were or not.
Kate was a woman walking the streets alone after midnight, possibly still a little drunk, and last seen heading in the direction of Houndsditch, on which stands St Botolph's, the prostitutes church. Whether or not she was soliciting, it's easy to see how she might be mistaken for someone who was.

[Pierre]

And your source for that is???

http://casebook.org/victims/

[Joshua Rogan]

By ignoring the ideal type we can also hypothesize that the killer was acquainted with Mary Jane Kelly. She was not alone and drunk in the street when she was killed. She was alone and drunk in a room.

Mary Kelly was alone when she was killed? Is this another case of self-inflicted wounds?

[GUT]

http://casebook.org/victims/

Your source from 1888?

[GUT]

Mary Kelly was alone when she was killed? Is this another case of self-inflicted wounds?

Must apply to all of them as the great non historian assures us they were alone and drunk when killed, obviously mass suicide, maybe hypnosis induced.

[Errata]

Perhaps he was targeting women who looked like they might be prostitutes and wasn't too bothered whether they actually were or not.
Kate was a woman walking the streets alone after midnight, possibly still a little drunk, and last seen heading in the direction of Houndsditch, on which stands St Botolph's, the prostitutes church. Whether or not she was soliciting, it's easy to see how she might be mistaken for someone who was.

Sure. But there are theories based around the idea that Jack was actively seeking prostitutes for a variety of reasons. So if he wasn't strict about that, we need to either know why, or accept that there may be a serious flaw in the idea he was hunting prostitutes. Now, I'm fine either way. It just seems a sort of handy thing to all agree on. Sort of how we all generally agree on what a serial killer is.

[David Orsam]

http://casebook.org/victims/

That link does not support the statement that the women were drunk (or even alone or on the streets for that matter, being simply a collection of victim photographs) nor does it support the statement that the killer wanted them in this condition.

[Robert St Devil]

They were women who were out in the streets at night, alone and drunk. That was what he wanted.

Regards, Pierre

Then what was the lure to get them into dark locales in the small hours of the morning if they aren,t prostituting?