How to sort the Ripper

[Errata]

Hi Errata,

Excellent point. Moreover, the fact that the "condition" had not been properly codified, and very little academically has been written about it, means that attempts to define what exactly constitutes "picquerism" , and to define its characteristics, are going to be largely arbitrary.

There's actually been some good information on it coming from a gender studies professor if I remember correctly. Which may seem out of left field, but since most paraphilias are sociologically based, it's really the gender studies guys that get the specifics of any paraphilia in the teeth, so to speak. Especially since it's such a ripe field for some pretty glaring differences between how men and women process the same thing. In this case a fetish. Shrinks will treat it, but sociologists will dissect it. Criminologists can stick to their own field thanks. No one asks a psychiatrist to define a "signature". Harrumph.

[John G]

As the strike Pattern on Tabram shows a distinct stabbing to upper,middle and lower torso,I believe a controlled fury,rather than thoughtless frenzy condition of thinking on the killers part.

But, for a killer acting in a frenzied state, wouldn't they me the easiest parts of the body to strike, i.e. on the basis of surface area?

[John G]

Never mind that the criminological definition of picquerism tends to be vastly different than the psychiatric one.

Hi Errata,

Excellent point. Moreover, the fact that the "condition" had not been properly codified, and very little academically has been written about it, means that attempts to define what exactly constitutes "picquerism" , and to define its characteristics, are going to be largely arbitrary.

[Errata]

Finished Germany and Russia,

You are definitely more likely to be eaten in Germany. Statistically, given every other country I've looked at, they have a definite problem.

I'm running down two guys from Russia, both who might fit the model but I don't have enough information yet. One might require a certain twist of mindset, but beggars can't be choosers.

[Errata]

As the strike Pattern on Tabram shows a distinct stabbing to upper,middle and lower torso,I believe a controlled fury,rather than thoughtless frenzy condition of thinking on the killers part.

I was under the impression from reading from her list of wounds that the stabbing was fairly well clustered in the upper abdomen/lower thoracic cavity. Which given Tabram's height is just about perfect for an average sized male driving a blade straight into her over and over, in an almost machine like movement. Which sounds like it's controlled, but can equally be a result of monofocused frenzy.

It's weird, but think about how you tap your pencil. You aren't aware of it, but you are doing it in almost the exact same place each time, despite not controlling it in any way. Human movements tend towards the repetitive when there is a loss of control. So Tabram's wounds might be less informative than we might have hoped. Might.

[Errata]

No John, it is not an experiment. Experiments are conducted under controlled conditions.

Regards, Pierre

Not a John, but okay.

I could make the argument, but I'm not going to. What I am going to do is start a thread that says, "hey, let's suppose that the most important thing about this killer is NOT in fact why he mutilated these women. Let's say that's not the overriding driving force for his behavior. Let's say instead that how he treated the corpses of the women he killed is the defining characteristic. What would that mean? And since we ask that question, let's go ahead and put together the three most extraordinary characteristics of this killer, and see if we can find a match in the legions of other killers this species has produced. What would those killers teach us about this one?

Yes. We could devote yet another thread to how a sexual sadist like Bundy is like the Ripper, but it's been done to death don't you think? What does it hurt? Whose toes am I really stepping on here by pursuing this line of thought?

Honestly. People can be so precious about this.

[harry]

As the strike Pattern on Tabram shows a distinct stabbing to upper,middle and lower torso,I believe a controlled fury,rather than thoughtless frenzy condition of thinking on the killers part.

[Errata]

Hi Pierre,

The argument that the murders were sexually orientated is predicated on the assumption that the killer purposely targeted certain areas of the body. However, as I indicated in my earlier post, that conclusion is questionable. For instance, Tabram was clearly subjected to a frenzied knife attack so "stabbing the breast and genital area" may have been entirely incidental.

The wounds inflicted on Nichols, Chapman and Eddowes seem more purposeful than in the case of Tabram, involving a higher level of skill and, in the case of the latter victims, directed principally towards the removal of organs, so a different killer may have been involved.

Moreover, your arguments that the removal of organs indicate a sexual motive is pure speculation. In fact, Keppel does not make that point; to the contrary, there conclusion was that, "while there was no evidence of the primary mechanisms of sexual activity, there was an overriding sexual nature as evidenced in the signature characteristic of picquerism"

However, as I keep pointing out, picquerism doesn't exist as a codified psychiatric disorder; it is listed in the under the DSM as "paraphilia not otherwise specified", and "by virtue of their residual and idiosyncratic nature, cases given the NOS label are by definition outside what is generally accepted by the field as reliable and valid psychiatric disorder." (Frances and First, 2011). See: http://www.jaapl.org/content/39/4/555.long.

In fact, it's been suggested that "paraphilia as a concept is vulnerable to societal pressures rather than advances in science so diagnosis may be grounded more in societal norms than in psychiatric health."( McManus, et. al, 2013) See: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3769077/

Never mind that the criminological definition of picquerism tends to be vastly different than the psychiatric one.

[Ozzy]

If every word is bold, doesn't that defeat the purpose of using bold?

Isn't the point of bold to highlight certain words within the larger text?

[John G]

No, they use the concept as a signature component and not as a diagnostic tool. The critique of that concept as a diagnostic definition is another issue.



"He moved from stabbing the breast and genital areas in the Tabram case, to mutilating these areas in the Nichols case, to harvesting organs in the Chapman and Kelly cases."

So the murders were sexually oriented.



No, that is not ironic. That is just a fact. They do this interpretation. I donīt. Because we have different types of knowledge.

Regards, Pierre

Hi Pierre,

The argument that the murders were sexually orientated is predicated on the assumption that the killer purposely targeted certain areas of the body. However, as I indicated in my earlier post, that conclusion is questionable. For instance, Tabram was clearly subjected to a frenzied knife attack so "stabbing the breast and genital area" may have been entirely incidental.

The wounds inflicted on Nichols, Chapman and Eddowes seem more purposeful than in the case of Tabram, involving a higher level of skill and, in the case of the latter victims, directed principally towards the removal of organs, so a different killer may have been involved.

Moreover, your arguments that the removal of organs indicate a sexual motive is pure speculation. In fact, Keppel does not make that point; to the contrary, there conclusion was that, "while there was no evidence of the primary mechanisms of sexual activity, there was an overriding sexual nature as evidenced in the signature characteristic of picquerism"

However, as I keep pointing out, picquerism doesn't exist as a codified psychiatric disorder; it is listed in the under the DSM as "paraphilia not otherwise specified", and "by virtue of their residual and idiosyncratic nature, cases given the NOS label are by definition outside what is generally accepted by the field as reliable and valid psychiatric disorder." (Frances and First, 2011). See: http://www.jaapl.org/content/39/4/555.long.

In fact, it's been suggested that "paraphilia as a concept is vulnerable to societal pressures rather than advances in science so diagnosis may be grounded more in societal norms than in psychiatric health."( McManus, et. al, 2013) See: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3769077/

[Pierre]

I'm afraid Keppel's conclusions are somewhat questionable. For instance, they identified JtR's main signature characteristic as "progressive picquerism", a mental health condition that doesn't officially exist.

No, they use the concept as a signature component and not as a diagnostic tool. The critique of that concept as a diagnostic definition is another issue.

They also concluded that the murders were sexually orientated, identifying sexualized violence as a core signature component. However, this conclusion is also questionable. For instance, they refer to the victims being "stabbed repeatedly in the genital area,"but these injuries may be incidental given the total number of wounds inflicted.

"He moved from stabbing the breast and genital areas in the Tabram case, to mutilating these areas in the Nichols case, to harvesting organs in the Chapman and Kelly cases."

So the murders were sexually oriented.

However, they did rule out the Pinchin Street Torso as a Ripper victim, based upon signature characteristics, which is somewhat ironic as you seem to believe that this victim was murdered by your suspect.

No, that is not ironic. That is just a fact. They do this interpretation. I donīt. Because we have different types of knowledge.

Regards, Pierre

[Pierre]

Pierre, the whole point is to look at it a different way to see if we get different answers. I'm aware of the several analyses that exist on the Ripper. Some of them I find cogent and well thought out, some are ridiculous. This is using different parameters to gather together a different pool of similar suspects.

If you find it to be a waste of time, by all means don't waste it. It's an experiment. Nothing more.

No John, it is not an experiment. Experiments are conducted under controlled conditions.

Regards, Pierre

[John G]

Hi Errata,

I donīt want to spoil your fun. But I must say that you are spending a lot of energy to find answers where there already are answers:

The Jack the Ripper murders: a modus operandi and signature analysis of the 1888–1891 Whitechapel murders

Robert D. Keppel
Joseph G. Weis
Katherine M. Brown and
Kristen Welch

Article first published online: 17 MAR 2005

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...24CE505.f02t01

You can read the whole article online by clicking "GET PDF" to the right on the website.

Kind regards, Pierre

Hi Pierre,

I'm afraid Keppel's conclusions are somewhat questionable. For instance, they identified JtR's main signature characteristic as "progressive picquerism", a mental health condition that doesn't officially exist. They also concluded that the murders were sexually orientated, identifying sexualized violence as a core signature component. However, this conclusion is also questionable. For instance, they refer to the victims being "stabbed repeatedly in the genital area,"but these injuries may be incidental given the total number of wounds inflicted.

However, they did rule out the Pinchin Street Torso as a Ripper victim, based upon signature characteristics, which is somewhat ironic as you seem to believe that this victim was murdered by your suspect.

[Errata]

He didn't actually keep him, Errata. After he had hid him underneath his shop, he fled to Brisbane. To me, this actually shows that he wasn't a hoarder, but rather the abandoner that he was with his outdoors/public bath murders.

All the best,
Frank

Yeah it's an odd one. Bringing a corpse back to a personal space generally is the definition of body hoarding, but if he didn't stick around it to be near it... then it's just a mysterious decision. It's like what would happen if body hoarding, body dumping, and body abandoning all happened at the same time. Stuffing it under someone else's place of business would be a dump. Sticking around with it would have been hoarding, and just leaving the area is abandonment. I think the stress might have caused him to have an accident in his head. He did all three in a fit of poor decision making.

[Errata]

Hi Errata,

I donīt want to spoil your fun. But I must say that you are spending a lot of energy to find answers where there already are answers:

The Jack the Ripper murders: a modus operandi and signature analysis of the 1888–1891 Whitechapel murders

Robert D. Keppel
Joseph G. Weis
Katherine M. Brown and
Kristen Welch

Article first published online: 17 MAR 2005

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...24CE505.f02t01

You can read the whole article online by clicking "GET PDF" to the right on the website.

Kind regards, Pierre

Pierre, the whole point is to look at it a different way to see if we get different answers. I'm aware of the several analyses that exist on the Ripper. Some of them I find cogent and well thought out, some are ridiculous. This is using different parameters to gather together a different pool of similar suspects.

If you find it to be a waste of time, by all means don't waste it. It's an experiment. Nothing more.