JTR a Pranzini Copycat?

[Sam Flynn]

We are in all probability looking for a man who was of a mature age in 1888, therefore. Guess who fits that bill...?

William Gull?

[Fisherman]

William Gull?

Nope. Try again!

[mklhawley]

I think a JTR who was 28 in 1888 would have easily been at a very impressionable age before 1873.

Jack the Ripper was definitely not 28 in 1888.

[mklhawley]

William Gull?

Here you go:

http://www.searchingfortruthwithabrokenflashlight.com/uploads/Dunham_Tumblety_Anatomical_Museum.pdf

[Pcdunn]

Hi Pat,

The crime historian and author Elisabeth Wetsch commented on Peter Sutcliffe, the Yorkshire Ripper:

A favorite outing for the would-be ripper was a local wax museum, where he lingered by the hour over torsos that depicted the results of gross venereal disease.

Hi, Mike,

Yes, I read something very similar about Sutcliffe recently in a book called "The Serial Killer Files", a broad overview of international serial killers.

Your article on Tumblety's collection and anatomical museums of the time looks very interesting-- I'll try to make time to read it more closely when I'm off work in a week.

[Sam Flynn]

Yes, I read something very similar about Sutcliffe recently in a book called "The Serial Killer Files".

Sutcliffe's preoccupation with the anatomy exhibit in Nicholson's Wax Museum in Morecambe is also noted in Gordon Burn's excellent Somebody's Husband, Somebody's Son (1984).

"The torsos are life-size, headless, legless and female. There are nine of them, and the cross-sections cut from their lower abdomens betray their function, which was to illustrate 'The nine states of pregnancy' to an audience of Victorian lay-people." (p145, paperback edition)

[Joshua Rogan]

torsos that depicted the results of gross venereal disease

"The torsos are life-size, headless, legless and female. There are nine of them, and the cross-sections cut from their lower abdomens betray their function, which was to illustrate 'The nine states of pregnancy' to an audience of Victorian lay-people." (p145, paperback edition)

So....pregnancy is actually a venereal disease?

[Sam Flynn]

So....pregnancy is actually a venereal disease?

The venereal disease waxworks were in a separate section of the same museum. (Having said that, excepting in vitro fertilisation and parthenogenesis, you can "contract" pregnancy through sexual activity )

[Joshua Rogan]

Well, as long as you can't catch it from a toilet seat!

Anyway, back to the fascinating thread.

The article "An Autumn Evening in Whitechapel" ( http://www.casebook.org/victorian_london/autumnev.html ) describes the sights of the East End in November 1888, and mentions (amongst other things) the waxwork, and it's proximity to Bucks Row;

"A few yards further on there is a waxwork show with some horrible pictorial representations of the recent murders, and all the dreadful details are being blated out into the night, and women with children in their arms are pushing their way to the front with their pennies to see the ghastly objects within. Next door is a show, in which ghosts and devils and skeletons appear to be the chief attractions; and near at hand is a flaring picture of a modern Hercules performing within."

"Out again into the great thoroughfare, back a little way past the roaring salesman and the hideous waxwork, and round the corner. This opening here, where the public-house, the bar of which looks to be full of mothers with children in their arms, blazes at the corner, leads down to Buck’s Row."

[mklhawley]

Joshua, the details of this museum are in my article:

http://www.searchingfortruthwithabro.../130Wax_v2.pdf

Before this, everyone thought the museum was the same location as where they found John Derek, the Elephant man, in 1884, but it's not. Read it.

Sincerely,

Mike

If this link doesn't work, I posted it in post number 5 on the first page.

[John Wheat]

Jack the Ripper was definitely not 28 in 1888.

How do you know?

[Fisherman]

...you can "contract" pregnancy through sexual activity )

Bullshit. Never happened to me.

[Fisherman]

Actually, the equation - as it stands - must be solved by the suggestion of a man who was in place in London in 1873-74 and in 1887-89, at the very least. He would have been old enough to kill as early as 1873, meaning that (if we follow this reasoning) we can discard a whole lot of "prominent" Rippers suspects.
Out of the suspects we have, who works in this scenario? Bury? No, he was 14 in 1873. Druitt? 16 in 1873. James Kelly? 13 in 1873. Chapman? 8 in 1873. Kosminski? 8 or 9 in 1873. Jacob Levy? 17 in 1873. None of these men would be very credible to have been the man who killed the Battersea Torso woman in 1873.

Lechmere would have been around 24. Tumblety would have been 40. Both these men work agewise - but can we place the latter in London in 1873 and 1874? Or, for that matter, in 1889?

Maybe Gareth´s got a point after all - maybe it was Gull ...

Of course, there is no proof that the man who killed ElizabethJackson was also the man who killed the 1873 and 1874 torso women. But there are very many great likenesses inbetween these victims, and it was speculated at the time that they all were the work of the same man.

Is it possible to have a discussion about these matters without any bloodshed...?

[Sam Flynn]

Of course, there is no proof that the man who killed ElizabethJackson was also the man who killed the 1873 and 1874 torso women. But there are very many great likenesses in between these victims

As there are between any number of other "torso killings"... dismembering a corpse in an effort to conceal a murder is, sadly, far from being rare.

[Natasha]

Hi Mike

Good find, a worthy thread.

I think that the Venuses may have influenced the ripper also, as someone said the fascination of seeing these as a youngster may have influenced the killings. These exhibits were not only in Paris and Italy, but also Vienna and Spain, probably all over Europe for that matter