Ligature Signature, or How did Jack the Ripper get his ligature knowledge?

[Karl]

The ecchymosis on Mary Jane Kellys neck suggest strangulation. The blood clots in Elizabeth Stride's left ventricle suggest strangulation. Garroting a victim properly was a professional operation.

How did Jack the Ripper get his ligature knowledge?

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Jumping to conclusions. Strangulation does not automatically imply ligature strangulation. Ligature strangulation leaves tell tale marks, which manual strangulation doesn't always do.

Could the Ripper have been a former soldier, and have been trained in hand-to-hand combat?

This does not necessitate a military background. Martial arts were practiced back then as well. Several types of wrestling and boxing flourished in the 19th century, even though it's not what most people associate with the Victorian era.

I believe garrotting lends credibility to Schwartz' testimony. He attests to seeing a woman being attacked on Berner St. She cries for help but not loudly BECAUSE she has a ligature (silk handkerchief; could she afford silk?) cinched around her neck and she is losing conciousness.

If she was being strangled, whether by garotte or throttling, she would not be able to scream at all. Strangling not only prevents inhalation, it also prevents exhalation to the same extent.

Maybe her height made her a difficult victim but that obstacle is not relevant since Jack the Ripper is situationally adaptable.

The only reference we have for Elizabeth Stride's height - at least as far as I'm aware - is her inquest, in which her height is given as 5'2. Also, we do not know to what degree Jack the Ripper was situationally adaptable. That's just a place-holder explanation to allow oneself to ignore the inconsistencies between the various murders. Personally, I am not convinced one way or the other that Elizabeth Stride or Mary Jean Kelly were victims of JtR, and I am not going to assume situational adaptability simply out of convenience.

We know she was strangulated by the condition of her heart in the post mortem.

The heart alone cannot tell us this. Cardiac dilation is one of the aspects associated with asphyxiation, but it is also a common post mortem find besides. It must be viewed in context with the rest of the post mortem.

[Wickerman]

Hello Wickerman.
Were the reports in 1888 gang or individual related?

Hello Robert.
From Aug - Nov, 1888 five cases of gangs garrotting a victim, one case of a single garrotter.
Odd that these press accounts don't actually mention the use of a cord.

[The Good Michael]

Hello Good Michael.
How would You envision strangling a woman in public?

Why would I do that?

Mike

[Robert St Devil]

The lAst source that i used was Guy's Hospital Reports Vol. 49, p.108. It is the doctor's report of the homicidal strangulation of Mr. Kerwain in 1892. Mr Kerwain was the victim of a confidence scam performed by a prostitue and 3 men at a pub. In the post mortem, it describes the same condition of the heart's ventricles as Elizabeth Stride's heart. Mr Kerwain appeared to be strangled with a hand and his own tie, which reminded me of the silk neckerchief.

Notes of interest:
It also talks of the hands being semi-clenched.
The tongue was pressed against the teeth.
It took the men less than 5 minutes to garrot and rob the man in a dark alley.
His stomach contained 6.5 percent/vol. alcohol; public house beer was 5.5.
Mr Kerwain is reported to have somewhat hyperemic kidney (possibly congested?).
He is reported to have ecchymosis spots on his forehead. To speculate, these weren't conditions of bruising but purpura spots brought on by his renal condition. It brings to mind blotchy skin.

[Robert St Devil]

I think anyone who wanted to strangle a woman wouldn't have to learn a great deal and could probably just envision it and do it and especially with women in a vulnerable condistion or position. I don't feel there's anything here at all.

Mike

Hello Good Michael.
How would You envision strangling a woman in public?

[Robert St Devil]

There are still isolated cases of garrotting being reported in the press for 1888, every month throughout the year. The method is still being used.

Hello Wickerman.
Were the reports in 1888 gang or individual related?

[The Good Michael]

I think anyone who wanted to strangle a woman wouldn't have to learn a great deal and could probably just envision it and do it and especially with women in a vulnerable condistion or position. I don't feel there's anything here at all.

Mike

[Shaggyrand]

Garroting was an incredibly popular practice through most of human history and in most places. Long before the Thuggees. It was used in both China and Rome as far back as the first century BC. Probably was an ancient practice then too.
The French and Spanish were big fans of it in the 1800s. The French would garrote prisoners of war. It was Spain's main execution until the 1950s. The Portuguese loved to use it on the Indigionous groups in The Americas during the early days of slaughtering them. All of Europe used it as a favorite torture method in the Middle Ages.

[Wickerman]

Garroting seems to have been an adopted practice. I can only speculate whether it originated with the thuggees, but Jack the Ripper's method does share similarities (confidence scam, garrotting with an article of clothing). Jailers used it as a method to control prisoners aboard ships. The prisoners saw how effective and non-lethal was the method that they put it into practice. Leading up to the "Great Garrote Scare of 63". "By 1875 garrotting fades from the headlines" (The Liverpool Underworld: Crime In the City 1750-1900)

There are still isolated cases of garrotting being reported in the press for 1888, every month throughout the year. The method is still being used.

[Robert St Devil]

I used Dr. Dinesh Rao's Forensic Pathology Online for information on LIGATURE STRANGULATION. It suggested the presence of ecchymosis about the neck; this is a condition reported in Mary Jane Kelly's post mortem report. However... it mentions that ligature marks will not appear if the ligature is applied AFTER the victim's death. For me, this indicates that Mary Jane Kelly was strangulated first.

It has other information useful to the case. Depending on the material could factor into whether or not a ligature mark was left (Rose Mylett?). The time to render a victim unconscious occurred in matters of seconds. &c.

- - - - - - -

Garroting seems to have been an adopted practice. I can only speculate whether it originated with the thuggees, but Jack the Ripper's method does share similarities (confidence scam, garrotting with an article of clothing). Jailers used it as a method to control prisoners aboard ships. The prisoners saw how effective and non-lethal was the method that they put it into practice. Leading up to the "Great Garrote Scare of 63". "By 1875 garrotting fades from the headlines" (The Liverpool Underworld: Crime In the City 1750-1900)

[Robert St Devil]

I felt this garrotting operation sets a parameter of criminal professionalism that Jack the Ripper obviously met. When it comes to the strangulation aspect of his MO, he is efficient, adaptable, resourceful, natural. I dont feel like he rendered these women unconscious in a clumsy manner (like a crime of passion). His seems to be method over manner considering he is performing his ritual or operation in public.

-Victorianlondon.org-
A regular gang doe not often make speculative ventures. They call that "throwing a chance away,“ meaning that they run extraordinary risks. The favourite method is to select a promising victim, mark his incoming and outgoings, and await a fair opportunity of time and place. He is marked. Time and place are fixed for the deed; but opportunity is never forced. If success appears doubtful on one occasion, they wait till another comes round, and will dog one man for nights and even weeks together. At Iast fortune favours the unjust, and the thing is done. The “front stall" walks a few yard in advance of the prey; it is his duty to look out for dangers ahead. The "back stall" comes on at a still further distance behind, or sometimes in the carriage-way - aloof, but at the victim's side. Immediately in his real' walks the "nasty man," approaching nearer and nearer, with steps which keep time with those of him whom he follows. The first stall lifts his hat from his head in token that all is clear beyond; the second stall makes no sign to the contrary; and then the third ruffian, coming swiftly up, flings his right arm round the victim, striking him smartly on the forehead. Instinctively he throws his head back, and in that movement loses every chance of escape. His throat is fully offered to his assailant, who instantly embraces it with his left arm, the bone just above the wrist being pressed against the "apple" of the throat. At the same moment the garotter, dropping his right hand, seizes the other’s left wrist; and thus supplied with a powerful lever, draws him back upon his breast and there holds him. The "nasty man's" part is done. His burden is heIpless from the first moment, and speedily becomes insensibIe; all he has to do is to be a little merciful. An experienced garotter knows immediately when his prey is insensible (or so he boast ), and then he relaxes his embrace somewhat; but if symptoms of recovery should follow too rapidly, the hug is tightened forthwith. Meanwhile the stalls are busy. Their first care after the victim is seized and safely held, is to take off his hat and their comrade’s too; hats awkwardly kick about in the scuffle, and it is obviously not well for the garotter to leave anything that is his on the field of strife. This operation is assigned to the "front stall," and is simple enough; but he has sometimes to perform another and a far more onerous one. ShouId the "nasty man" have a "tumble," or, in language a little plainer, should he find a difficulty in "screwing up" his subject, it is the duty of the "front stall" to assist him by a heavy blow, generally delivered just under the waist. The screwing up is easy after that, and then the second stall proceeds to rifle the victim's pockets. This done, the garotter allows his insensible burden to drop to the ground, carefully avoiding a fall, lest that should arouse him.

[curious4]

When I looked into the Thugees a while back, I was intrigued by the mention of mutilations of their victims. There is a sketch of a Thugee cutting the eyes of his victim (shades of Kate and Mary). I can imagine an older soldier telling tales of the 'orrible mutilations carried out by the Thugees. No extra knots in the victim's scarves, though. I'm not sure the Thugees were always ritual killers, routined is the word that comes to mind - they were robbers, after all.

Best wishes
C4

Sorry, this belongs on another thread!!! My phone keeps jumping between threads !

No, there's no getting away from that "since", although I'd like to. Wanting to know what his behaviour was like during the period he was out of prison. But no, will have to admit defeat on this one. Don't think he was the killer though, if they had their eyes on him in august, surely he would have been carefully watched. Especially with a name like Ripper!

Best wishes
C4

[curious4]

When I looked into the Thugees a while back, I was intrigued by the mention of mutilations of their victims. There is a sketch of a Thugee cutting the eyes of his victim (shades of Kate and Mary). I can imagine an older soldier telling tales of the 'orrible mutilations carried out by the Thugees. No extra knots in the victim's scarves, though. I'm not sure the Thugees were always ritual killers, routined is the word that comes to mind - they were robbers, after all.

Best wishes
C4

[Robert St Devil]

Hello All.
I will post the links to my souces highlighting the aspects that caught my attention later today. However & in the meantime.... I think garrotting ties [npi] in with the neckerchief, ribbon and bonnet themes in this case; the bonnet having been tied With a knot under the chin. Or, the idea of him offering to tie a gift of a handkerchief round their neck {cinch!}.

I believe garrotting lends credibility to Schwartz' testimony. He attests to seeing a woman being attacked on Berner St. She cries for help but not loudly BECAUSE she has a ligature (silk handkerchief; could she afford silk?) cinched around her neck and she is losing conciousness. Maybe her height made her a difficult victim but that obstacle is not relevant since Jack the Ripper is situationally adaptable. We know she was strangulated by the condition of her heart in the post mortem.

The question is, how many other garrotting possibilities could Schwartz have witnessed in front of Dutfield Yard if it wasnt Elizabeth Stride? How many slashing garrotters would you expect to find roaming near Berner St on Sep 30th?

[Shaggyrand]

I don't think that he would have had to go far to learn how to do it. The Thuggee version was highly ritualistic, they used a yellow scarf with a knot in the center to help crush the larynx and required force on the back. It takes a little bit longer than other methods. I mean just a few seconds but there would be more struggle and the victim harder to control if that's where the inspiration came from.
The garrote scare was in 1862 or 63 and the press were incredibly sensationalist about it. A handful of incidents were blown up large, so large that Parliament enacted new legislation for anyone caught garroting to be flogged while in prison. The whole of his knowledge of garrotes might come straight out of old newspapers or overhearing people talk about it during the panic or even years afterward.