Victimology, MO, signature

[Rosella]

Did Thomas Conway ever say that he supported the Fenians or that he was for Irish Home Rule, and where do we get that Catherine Eddowes was in agreement with him if he was?

[DJA]

I have work to do so that's why. I'll get back to this thread.

Found some more buttons and another sock

[DJA]

Kate was hanging with Irish self rule folks since her Conway days, Irish self rule folks were extremely topical in London at that precise point in time, and the previous year they had planned to kill the Queen. 1888 was the year they planned to kill Balfour. In the big scheme of things in 1888 murders of unfortunates was comparatively small potatoes when compared with talk of revolution and political assassinations. Interesting isn't it that virtually all the senior Policemen involved with Espionage and National Security were assigned to run these cases.

That Fall it seems terrorists were a much greater threat to everyone than an alledged unfortunate serial killer was.

Don't know where you got Kate's links to Irish self rule folks.

If Jack the Ripper was caught,there would have been a stink up through the police,the politicians and right up to the Queen.
Especially as the SOS was her appointment.

The Fenians would have taken advantage of that situation,for sure....for sure.

[c.d.]

Hello Michael,

I am so confused here. Are we supposed to stick to the evidence or are we allowed to speculate? Which is it? I am getting mixed signals from you.

c.d.

[Robert St Devil]

Bowyer trying to collect rent is no evidence...

So I would prefer not to speculate even if it can be useful for trying different interpretations and perspectives on old sources and on earlier history.

Regards Pierre

I have framed a question: how does getting your heart broken by a prostitute and having an opium addiction 'all the sudden' make you Batman?

I was speculating on something that you posted, eh, elsewhere - how the Mary Jane murder was his, eh, proudest(?) murder. It alludes to a thought that everything happened as planned, an idea of a perfect execution.

If that is the case, then all his plan came together, to include:

The discovery of Mary Janes's body by Tom Bowyer

Which leaves 3 logics:
1. Jack the Ripper needed her body found, but he was leaving that certainty up to chance.
2. Someone else was supposed to find the body, and Tom Bowyer is just some historical coincidence (ie. "Forest Gump","Harry Flashman") in the wrong place at the right time.
3. Jack the Ripper plans for Tom Bowyer to find her body.

[Abby Normal]

Based on the above Abby it seems as if you've never heard about a witness claiming that Kate told her she intended to claim the reward offered for information on the killer at large, because if you had then you might also wonder whether the party she intended to point to caught wind of it and decided to act first.

Kate was hanging with Irish self rule folks since her Conway days, Irish self rule folks were extremely topical in London at that precise point in time, and the previous year they had planned to kill the Queen. 1888 was the year they planned to kill Balfour. In the big scheme of things in 1888 murders of unfortunates was comparatively small potatoes when compared with talk of revolution and political assassinations. Interesting isn't it that virtually all the senior Policemen involved with Espionage and National Security were assigned to run these cases.

Any one of the Canonicals might have known terrorists about town, but speculating that Kate might have known Fenians (by whatever name) isn't really stepping outside any boxes. And speculating that Fenians were willing and capable of carrying out terrorist activities isn't really speculating at all.

That Fall it seems terrorists were a much greater threat to everyone than an alledged unfortunate serial killer was.

So Fenian terrorists were killing the women because the women knew of there terrorist plots and were going to out them? Is that what your saying?

[DJA]

I think that its within the realm of possibility that Kate told the man or men that bought her drinks what she intended to do to get the reward, maybe even shared names, that got back to the person or people who would be most adversely affected by her disclosure, and a follow up meeting planned with Kate that afternoon while drinking ended up being her last.

I think the choice of aliases shows us that she knew Mary Jane Kelly of Dorset Street.

The upstairs Bull Inn gained a reputation as a police bar in the short time it was reopened.

Abberline's retirement party was held down the street.
Same Publican.
John McCarthy and son attended.

Nothing. GSG.

[David Orsam]

1888 was the year they planned to kill Balfour.

Are you sure it wasn't 1887? As revealed by a cutting about Balfour's forthcoming appearance in Birmingham from the Daily News of 12 October 1887, found in the possession of one of the Jubilee plotters.

[Michael W Richards]

wow. that's quite an imagination you got there Michael. But I guess its OK since we are as you said in another thread just playing "parlor games" and not in an "investigation." Because that is some of the wildest speculation Ive ever seen on this site.


Who were these men, and what information could she possibly have that would have caused them to silence her?

Based on the above Abby it seems as if you've never heard about a witness claiming that Kate told her she intended to claim the reward offered for information on the killer at large, because if you had then you might also wonder whether the party she intended to point to caught wind of it and decided to act first.

Kate was hanging with Irish self rule folks since her Conway days, Irish self rule folks were extremely topical in London at that precise point in time, and the previous year they had planned to kill the Queen. 1888 was the year they planned to kill Balfour. In the big scheme of things in 1888 murders of unfortunates was comparatively small potatoes when compared with talk of revolution and political assassinations. Interesting isn't it that virtually all the senior Policemen involved with Espionage and National Security were assigned to run these cases.

Any one of the Canonicals might have known terrorists about town, but speculating that Kate might have known Fenians (by whatever name) isn't really stepping outside any boxes. And speculating that Fenians were willing and capable of carrying out terrorist activities isn't really speculating at all.

That Fall it seems terrorists were a much greater threat to everyone than an alledged unfortunate serial killer was.

[Abby Normal]

Heres the thing Jon, having information dangerous to other people is also a reason for a "contract" as you put it.. to be placed upon your head. I think that its within the realm of possibility that Kate told the man or men that bought her drinks what she intended to do to get the reward, maybe even shared names, that got back to the person or people who would be most adversely affected by her disclosure, and a follow up meeting planned with Kate that afternoon while drinking ended up being her last.

I don't think that the killer sought her because she called herself by a version of Mary Kelly that afternoon, just because she was a risk that needed mitigating. I think the choice of aliases shows us that she knew Mary Jane Kelly of Dorset Street, maybe through Irish friends she made while with Conway. I believe its possible that Kate inadvertently had a hand in Marys death...because the party responsible for Kates murder discovered a real Mary Kelly on Dorset St, after Kates murder, and they might have assumed the women had shared information.

Kates murder lacked the skill and knowledge that previous murders revealed, and Marys lacked the focus, something you might expect if someone was attempting to replicate acts they had only read about, and really didn't understand.

Cheers

wow. that's quite an imagination you got there Michael. But I guess its OK since we are as you said in another thread just playing "parlor games" and not in an "investigation."

Because that is some of the wildest speculation Ive ever seen on this site.

that got back to the person or people who would be most adversely affected by her disclosure, and a follow up meeting planned with Kate that afternoon while drinking ended up being her last.

Who were these men, and what information could she possibly have that would have caused them to silence her?

[Pierre]

You mean, seen to Tom Bowyer finding the body, i presume... since it's evident his plan worked.

Bowyer trying to collect rent is no evidence for the killer having contacted him. So we are just speculating now. My point is that he could have contacted anybody to make sure the victim was found. He could even have contacted the police.

But history doesnīt work in the way of "could have". It is built on relations between sources. And we now that the sources say that Boywer was sent by McCarthy to collect rent. Thatīs all we know.

So I would prefer not to speculate even if it can be useful for trying different interpretations and perspectives on old sources and on earlier history.

Regards Pierre

[Robert St Devil]

You mean, seen to Tom Bowyer finding the body, i presume... since it's evident his plan worked.

[Pierre]

Hi Pierre

Even though there was a chance that Kelly`s body may not have been discovered till late in the afternoon ?

He was a murderer. He was Jack the Ripper. He would have seen to it that they would have discovered the murder.

Regards Pierre

[Michael W Richards]

Hi Packers.

Contract killings tend to target people of importance, Mob bosses, Presidents, public figures.....

Heres the thing Jon, having information dangerous to other people is also a reason for a "contract" as you put it.. to be placed upon your head. I think that its within the realm of possibility that Kate told the man or men that bought her drinks what she intended to do to get the reward, maybe even shared names, that got back to the person or people who would be most adversely affected by her disclosure, and a follow up meeting planned with Kate that afternoon while drinking ended up being her last.

I don't think that the killer sought her because she called herself by a version of Mary Kelly that afternoon, just because she was a risk that needed mitigating. I think the choice of aliases shows us that she knew Mary Jane Kelly of Dorset Street, maybe through Irish friends she made while with Conway. I believe its possible that Kate inadvertently had a hand in Marys death...because the party responsible for Kates murder discovered a real Mary Kelly on Dorset St, after Kates murder, and they might have assumed the women had shared information.

Kates murder lacked the skill and knowledge that previous murders revealed, and Marys lacked the focus, something you might expect if someone was attempting to replicate acts they had only read about, and really didn't understand.

Cheers

[Robert St Devil]

Maybe there is data that Jack walked into ol' M'carthy's shop, bought a candled and dropped a "What Ho, Gov'na! I saws that Mark Kelly wif a large pile of cashmoney just nows. Wonder 'ow th' lass gots 'er 'ands ons it?"

Please try to read that in a Dick Van Dyke Mary Poppins cartoonish lay broad type accent.

LMAO Shaggyrand.

Classic accent, some days it just pays to login here. So it was Bert the Chimney Sweep, uh? Lol. That solves how that chim chimmining dope fiend was able to disappear.