Once you have eliminated the impossible

[GUT]

Hi C4
I do believe Stride was a ripper victim but mistaken identity.
He believed he was seen by Liz Long in Hanbury Street
He kills long liz in error.....it's a possibility
The real aim that night was a woman going by the name Mary Kelly who was happily drunk that evening and soon to be released.Find who bought her enough drink to think she was a fire engine and you find jack the ripper

But that presupposes he knew BOTH their names.

[Pcdunn]

Why are two full partners out of the question?

and what kind of control would someone have to have over you in order to make you participate to any degree? Surely not an employer. Nor would money convince you unless you wanted to do it anyway.

Right, which is why I suggested earlier:
A) Master and servant-- risky, as we all know servants may or may not be loyal.
B) Two men who share the same kinky blood-lust and have a pact, by which they protect each others' secrets. Teacher and student? Father and son? -- Hmm.. not sure on this one.
C) Younger equals who are thrill-killing randomly, perhaps more suited to the lower classes, but not necessarily.

I'm just playing with the ideas, here. I think JtR worked alone, but am open to considering other ideas.

[packers stem]

But that presupposes he knew BOTH their names.

Yes
Hardly the most difficult task in the world,asking in pubs for Liz long or Mary Kelly.People can usually be found if they're habitual drinkers in bars. I think Eddowes was found a lot earlier anyway and a meet was arranged

[Pcdunn]

Why these particular victims?

Yes
Hardly the most difficult task in the world,asking in pubs for Liz long or Mary Kelly.People can usually be found if they're habitual drinkers in bars. I think Eddowes was found a lot earlier anyway and a meet was arranged

Alright, I'll bite-- why was your Ripper specifically after these poor women? Was he an assassin for hire?

[packers stem]

Alright, I'll bite-- why was your Ripper specifically after these poor women? Was he an assassin for hire?

Hi Pat
I've mentioned this on a few threads recently so apologies to anyone who doesn't like me repeating it but in the 1891 census there are only 48 Mary Kellys in London (between the ages of 25-35 as a ball park age) which was even then populated by millions.
If you allocate to individual regions you would by law of averages have less than a handful in spitalfields more than likely.
Whichever way you look at it name wise...yes her name was cathy eddowes,on the day she died she was using the name Mary Kelly....as was the alleged next victim.
The odds against any two of the C5 (and i take the view thats all there was,obviously others disagree) both using an uncommon name in the area at the time of death must be astronomical but for the last two in a series of 5 it becomes far too rediculous to ignore for me.I would love to get a statisticians view on it...could be lottery winning odds lol
My mindset is made up on that....for me Mary Kelly was the intended final victim
I dont know why or who so i'm not going to make up a theory but if i was leaning one way or another at the moment it would be towards either fenian or anti but that would just be my guess at the moment.... the prescence of the RIC in Millers Court after the murder does nothing to dampen this for me...quite odd

[Rosella]

Why is the surname Kelly looming so large, Packers? How many Elizabeth Strides were there in London at that time, or Catherine Eddowes or Annie Chapmans for that matter? Did Tabram, Nichols, Chapman or Stride ever use the name Kelly on a regular basis?

[packers stem]

Why is the surname Kelly looming so large, Packers? How many Elizabeth Strides were there in London at that time, or Catherine Eddowes or Annie Chapmans for that matter? Did Tabram, Nichols, Chapman or Stride ever use the name Kelly on a regular basis?

Hi Rosella
I fear you're missing my point.It's because 2 of them used the same name,therefore doesn't matter a jot how many annie Chapmans etc there were in London.... Would do of course if 2 of the victims had been using the name annie Chapman.
I've never included tabram in my thinking,nor Smith,mckenzie so I couldn't say.
The whole point for me is the last 2 of the five....you don't see that aa unusual??
I'm still waiting to hear of any other serial killer who has by chance killed one person and then by chance again killed another person using the same name next time out... And then stopped the spree.He should have carried on looking for the hattrick maybe...

[Pcdunn]

Packers, have you read about the theory that Mary Kelly was killed by a former husband named Craig? It's a new book, and there are several threads about it. Your theory about the last two could fit in there-- maybe.

In post 95, what do you mean by "the presence of the RIC in Miller's Court"? I don't understand the reference. Thanks...

[Wickerman]

Hi Packers, good to see you got the hang of it

Still can't accept what was not mentioned or not noted as being evidence i'm afraid.

Fair enough, but him mentioning the red handkerchief once, at the passage, is evidence of what exactly?

True.But this predates Hutchinsons statement.He would know about the seen lookout

We are in no position to say that he knew about that sighting.

You're totally missing my point here.I do not question time of death at all.But i do believe Maxwell and Lewis.
That leaves me to question Barnetts identification.McCarthy coudn't recognise the body,why do we have to believe that Barnett could.

Don't we expect the man who lived with her to know her better than the landlord?

Reason i do not doubt the medical evidence is quite simply...fish and potatoes
Never been a breakfast,never will

Many of these people had beer for breakfast, I never have, but that doesn't mean they never did.
However, I have had a 'dinner' style meal at 2:00 in the morning, especially after working late, I don't find that too strange.

[GUT]

G'day Packer

May I butt in here, what would you expect Mary (or whoever it was) to have had for breakfast?

I suspect the norm may have been nothing or a bit of bread and dripping, but with a few p in her kick, no cooking facilities to speak of, why not some Fush and chips, especially if she had a gut full of beer.

Sorry old son but many know would have something exactly like that so the fat can soak up a bit of alcohol, in fact was I time when I would myself.

[lynn cates]

R I C

Hello PC Dunn. The reference concerns the fact that some members of the Royal Irish Constabulary were present at Miller's Court during the investigation.

I recall one old news snippet that indicated they were there because they thought they could shed some light on the murder.

Cheers.
LC

[Rosella]

No Packers, I don't think it is unusual. Eddowes used the name Conway and Eddowes interchangeably. If she was constantly going by the name Kelly instead of on an occasional basis towards the end of her life I would indeed find it strange. She didn't, however.

[packers stem]

Packers, have you read about the theory that Mary Kelly was killed by a former husband named Craig? It's a new book, and there are several threads about it. Your theory about the last two could fit in there-- maybe.

In post 95, what do you mean by "the presence of the RIC in Miller's Court"? I don't understand the reference. Thanks...

Morning Pat
I've not read the book but the threads do look interesting, especially the use of the name Johnto and thankfully after 30 years of kosminsky/Cohen /local mad butcher style nonsense more people are starting to accept surgical background to the killer.I'll have to get the book..
..and Simon's book I'm dying to get my hands on but looks like I may have to buy a kindle for that.
The RIC were the Royal Irish Constabulary. 2 officers visited Millers Court along with a high ranking post office official and a member of parliament....

[packers stem]

No Packers, I don't think it is unusual. Eddowes used the name Conway and Eddowes interchangeably. If she was constantly going by the name Kelly instead of on an occasional basis towards the end of her life I would indeed find it strange. She didn't, however.

Hi Rosella
It's irrelevant totally which other names she may have used....the fact remains that on the day she died the name she was going by was Mary Kelly, not Eddowes, not Conway but Kelly therefore the last 2 of the C5 were both going by the name of Mary Kelly on the day of their death,any names they may have used in the past have no bearing on the case at all.
I can't fathom at all how don't find that unusual... I've not heard of it happening with any random set of murders in the past bearing in mind it wasn't as common a name as some people seem to think

[packers stem]

G'day Packer

May I butt in here, what would you expect Mary (or whoever it was) to have had for breakfast?

I suspect the norm may have been nothing or a bit of bread and dripping, but with a few p in her kick, no cooking facilities to speak of, why not some Fush and chips, especially if she had a gut full of beer.

Sorry old son but many know would have something exactly like that so the fat can soak up a bit of alcohol, in fact was I time when I would myself.

Good morning GUT
I agree, an evening or even midnight after drinking meal....certainly not breakfast
For Bond to have spotted the undigested remains chances are it was eaten upto maybe 3 hours before death....rules out a 9 am murder... But I believe maxwell and lewis' sightings hence my doubting Barnett