Did Poison Play A Role In The Murders?

[Natasha]

Poison does have explanatory power when it comes to JtR. In fact it resolves a lot of issues so its why it should be taken seriously, especially considering the modern evidence that points to medical experience.

While all people must eat, many of JtRs victims had recently eaten. MJK had fish and potatoes. H0utchenson describes a man carrying a parcel. Fish supper?

Eddowes had partly digested farinaceous food inside her.

Stride clutching her sweets. Who knows, maybe Stride wasn't being attacked but instead was in the thrawls of a collapse.

Chapman had farinaceous powder in her food.

While it can be hard to explain away an amputation knife on you, it doesn't look as suspect in with other cutlery for food... well better than on its own anyway I would think.

Poison also gives an explanation for the mutilation. Since someone with medical knowledge would know it possible to detect poisons, it makes it harder back then if organs are missing or cut to shreds. Deflecting the medical interpretation.

Now why would someone go out killing prostitutes with poison, then do this? We can't say that the signature of the murderer is not sexual. It is. It's just warped. I think many people like myself might have speculated that Chapman was on a practice mission to find out how long it takes for his poison of choice to work for a future plan.

Timing is a problem... yet again it isn't like JtR was pefect. He wasn't. Far from it. He was very lucky and made many mistakes... just not enough to get caught.

Chapman used tartar-emetic.

Hi Batman

I agree about the use of poison.
I think, as it's been suggested by others, that if the ripper was suffering ill health say from a STD then the use of poison would aid him in killing his victims. Of course there would be the argument of why he didn't just kill his victims full stop with the poison. But if you look at the overkill of the victims, it would suggest that he was obviously angry, perverted etc.

I did point out that these women couldn't have gotten that drank, considering many factors, though we don't know how intoxicated the victims were.

You make a good point about Stride. I always thought it strange that she was clutching the sweets. I would have thought she would have dropped those, and tried to fight off her attacker.

There was no screams heard, I know it's possible that perhaps strangulation could have halted this, but wouldn't the victims have struggled at least got a scream out before being strangled? I'm sure I read there was no signs of struggle, just clenched hands.
There were what could be perceived as defense wounds on Kelly, but not on some of the others. Just red marks, the missing rings indicate the reason for these.

[Batman]

Stride screamed 3 times faintly apparently according to Schwartz.
Someone heard 'murder' being screamed the night MJK died.
Chapman went down with a 'no!' and maybe hit a fence going down.

[Natasha]

Stride screamed 3 times faintly apparently according to Schwartz.
Someone heard 'murder' being screamed the night MJK died.
Chapman went down with a 'no!' and maybe hit a fence going down.

Stride: did Schwartz see the murderer, or was the murderer someone else?

Chapman: you got me there.

Kelly: could have been her, but we don't know for sure.

[Batman]

Stride: did Schwartz see the murderer, or was the murderer someone else?

Nobody ever witnessed JtR murder someone. However Schwartz claimed to have seen a man assault Stride minutes before she died. Schwartz is reported to have said "The man tried to pull the woman into the street, but he turned her round and threw her down on the footway and the woman screamed three times, but not loudly."

[Natasha]

Nobody ever witnessed JtR murder someone. However Schwartz claimed to have seen a man assault Stride minutes before she died. Schwartz is reported to have said "The man tried to pull the woman into the street, but he turned her round and threw her down on the footway and the woman screamed three times, but not loudly."

I never said they did. I said was the man Schwartz saw the murderer? Your opinion is what I'm asking.

[Batman]

Yeah I know you never said but I thought it worth restating it myself because Schwartz didn't see a murder but quite likely the start of one. I'm canonical so yeah she is a victim of JtR and meets modern victimology criteria.

[Natasha]

If poison was used could this explain why Kelly's words were slurred? Cox said she didn't think Kelly was drunk until she spoke.

[Natasha]

I know it would be beneficial to check the contents of the stomach for perhaps determining time of death. But did the coroners check for poisoning?

What would make them think the victims were poisoned if they were checking for this?

[RockySullivan]

Could the cauchous been laced wit scopolamine ?

[Natasha]

Could the cauchous been laced wit scopolamine ?

Hi Rocky

I don't think Scopolamine would have been used as a poison of choice, because the effects aren't really beneficial (the adverse side effects are uncommon/rare), for want of a better word, for the ripper's intentions.

You did mention that this drug can cause urine retention and it does, but unless it was used as part of a concoction of other poisons, I don't think it would be any use on it's own.

The sweets are a good suggestion though, as to weather they were contaminated.
I was thinking also that perhaps cigarettes could have been laced to poison the victims. I saw a news article that mentioned a warning about a bad batch of cigarettes that were 'poisoned'.

[Rosella]

Were any of these women known to smoke? I have an idea that cigarettes were reasonably expensive at that time. Some working class women smoked pipes.

[RockySullivan]

Hi Rocky

I don't think Scopolamine would have been used as a poison of choice, because the effects aren't really beneficial (the adverse side effects are uncommon/rare), for want of a better word, for the ripper's intentions.

You did mention that this drug can cause urine retention and it does, but unless it was used as part of a concoction of other poisons, I don't think it would be any use on it's own.

The sweets are a good suggestion though, as to weather they were contaminated.
I was thinking also that perhaps cigarettes could have been laced to poison the victims. I saw a news article that mentioned a warning about a bad batch of cigarettes that were 'poisoned'.

Could there be a connection between the cachous & Annie's pills?

[Natasha]

Were any of these women known to smoke? I have an idea that cigarettes were reasonably expensive at that time. Some working class women smoked pipes.

Eddowes had a cigarette case found in her possession, why would she have this if she didn't smoke?

All the victims had items in their possession that were not theirs. It stands to reason that perhaps the ripper gave the items to them.

For Eddowes it could have been some fags

For Kelly the hanky, perhaps this had some substance on it that aided the ripper in killing her.

[Natasha]

Could there be a connection between the cachous & Annie's pills?

Hi Rocky

Chapman's pills are something I am very interested in. What is very annoying is that we don't know what they were. There is no record of her having gone to the infirmary for them, so where did she get them? I think it possible that there is a connection with the sweets.

The sweets are something I would view as frivolous in terms of spending money on them. For someone like Stride to go out and buy these seems a bit strange seeing as she was very poor.

Perhaps the killer gave her the sweets.

I have said that perhaps Stride was not a victim of the ripper, but I am starting to think otherwise, especially in terms of the red items that the victims had. For example:

1 Eddowes: red cigarette case
2 Kelly: Red Hanky
3 Stride: Red Flower

Is it too much of a coincidence that the items these women had were red?

[GUT]

Silly question but can you give us a list that supports the statement

All the victims had items in their possession that were not theirs.